Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 456 posts

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#351

Post by sheepybloke »

azinman2 wrote: post #296
kosma wrote: post #164

There is research correlating autism and mothers taking certain medications (painkillers, antidepressants). Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Autistic people have a vastly high risk of depression, and often have unusual pain thresholds, requiring more painkillers. I would not be surprised of the correlation was real, but the direction of action was reversed…

According to my friend who is a geneticist, 30% of cases of autism can be found in DNA. Clearly not all cases are.

That's what our genetic councilor said as well. It's important to note autism is a spectrum and quite varied, some of it genetic and some of it related to other factors.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#352

Post by Aloisius »

manoDev wrote: post #346
docstryder wrote: post #75

It is the safest painkiller currently available. Ibuprofen can cause gut bleeding and renal issues if overdosed on. We all know about opiates. Some facts - typical adult dose is 1g. Max suggested cap on the drug label is 3g per day (about 6 pills at usual 500mg dose). You need to take 10g (20 pills) to be at real risk of hepatotoxicity. So 10 times the typical dose is when you have overdose effects. (basically 20 pil…

There is a “better” painkiller than both Tylenol and Ibuprofen (Metamizol), but it has been forbidden on the US based on a study attributing strong side-effects to it, despite it being freely available over the counter on multiple countries for decades without issue. If this study is true, it should be easy to compare prevalence of autism on these countries that don’t rely on Tylenol.

There's far more than one study now linking metamizole to agranulocytosis.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#353

Post by sandworm101 »

mannykannot wrote: post #120
sandworm101 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was legitimately put into a position of power by the american political system. And this is an article by the BBC, probably the most respected news source on the planet. Crazy is now the norm, the leading voice. It must be confronted.

Your first point is correct, but it (like the second one) has no bearing on the issue of the medical soundness of the department's positions and policy.

But the bbc's reputation does support the facts in the article. I am confident that the stock did drop because of what he said, because i trust the BBC not to make up such things.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#354

Post by SapporoChris »

kosma wrote: post #164

There is research correlating autism and mothers taking certain medications (painkillers, antidepressants). Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Autistic people have a vastly high risk of depression, and often have unusual pain thresholds, requiring more painkillers. I would not be surprised of the correlation was real, but the direction of action was reversed…

Do you have any links to the research to back you claims?

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#355

Post by azinman2 »

ellisv wrote: post #335
azinman2 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to my friend who is a geneticist, 30% of cases of autism can be found in DNA. Clearly not all cases are.

It's important to note our understanding is far from complete. There may be more genes associated with autism than we currently know. So 30% of cases may have a known genetic factor but that doesn't mean 70% don't have a genetic component.

True. But we’ve also seen environmental correlations as well, as well as things like age of the father, etc.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#356

Post by Aloisius »

pessimizer wrote: post #247
daveoc64 wrote: post #80

I'm always surprised at the hostility to Acetaminophen on HN (or Paracetamol as we call it here in the UK). It's one of the most commonly used medicines in the UK - and certainly the most popular painkiller. YouGov even did a survey confirming that - https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/docume... The safety aspects of it are not something that gets raised in the UK much - other than suicide attempts,…

It's weird that you're surprised, it's one of the most dangerous otc drugs, and is the leading cause of liver failure on the planet. I'm always surprised that British people treat it like aspirin, because an overdose can easily kill you. I'm serious. Over 50% of all liver failure is due to acetaminophen, and 20% of liver transplants. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4913076/

> I'm serious. Over 50% of all liver failure is due to acetaminophen, and 20% of liver transplants.

That's not what that study says.

It says it is responsible for 50% of the overdose-related acute liver failures. Acute liver failure is rare, especially compared to chronic liver failure.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#357

Post by didibus »

benregenspan wrote: post #239
spchampion2 wrote: post #4

Judging from the comments I've seen, nobody believes this because RFK has completely shot his credibility, and I don't blame them either. But it turns out there may actually be some emerging evidence to support this. This recent Harvard meta-analysis [1] from just last month looked at 46 different studies and suggested that there may actually be something happening here although it's not conclusive. Correlation but n…

> Further, a potential causal relationship is consistent with temporal trends—as acetaminophen has become the recommended pain reliever for pregnant mothers, the rates of ADHD and ASD have increased > 20-fold over the past decades I do not have at all the right background to evaluate this research so treat this opinion for what it's worth, but it seems incautious for the authors to close with this note near the end.…

Ya, an increased risk of 5-20% on an already very low risk.

That means mothers who don't take Tylenol have baseline 3% chance their child will be diagnosed with autism. And mothers who took Tylenol (at the levels of the study) may have a 3.15% to 3.6% chance (assuming causation, which has not been proven).

It seems unlikely we "cracked the code" here.

The best justification for the high increase we're seeing in the data is still just that the data itself has changed in how it's measured and tallied and so on.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#358

Post by didibus »

moduspol wrote: post #285
spchampion2 wrote: post #4

Judging from the comments I've seen, nobody believes this because RFK has completely shot his credibility, and I don't blame them either. But it turns out there may actually be some emerging evidence to support this. This recent Harvard meta-analysis [1] from just last month looked at 46 different studies and suggested that there may actually be something happening here although it's not conclusive. Correlation but n…

> Nobody should be making policy on this yet Maybe we should. We're talking about pregnant women and autism, along with taking a different painkiller. And if the theory is wrong, it'll only take a few years to find out, presumably. For people who don't have children: most medical advice regarding pregnant women and infants is overwhelmingly cautious and errs on the side of, "if we don't have enough studies confirming…

> I'm not sure why this would be any different.

The issue here is you need to make a trade. It's not like cutting out alcohol. Now you have to decide, what alternative painkiller will replace it.

There was an initial reason why Tylenol became the standard one, because others were assessed to be riskier in other ways.

I agree with you, people should weight all the known risks from all legitimate studies and data, and base policies around that, and this is no exception.

People are worried though that this won't be the case, and that bias is present from the start in this case, and we might end up making the wrong policy call.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#359

Post by knicholes »

Earw0rm wrote: post #293
knicholes wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Himalayan rabbits having black fur where their skin is cold and white fur where it's warm is a useful and obvious example of this.

Are the imprinted patterns then inherited, though?

No. Sounds like I was wrong earlier.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#360

Post by sneak »

WalterBright wrote: post #218
daveoc64 wrote: post #80

I'm always surprised at the hostility to Acetaminophen on HN (or Paracetamol as we call it here in the UK). It's one of the most commonly used medicines in the UK - and certainly the most popular painkiller. YouGov even did a survey confirming that - https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/docume... The safety aspects of it are not something that gets raised in the UK much - other than suicide attempts,…

A friend of mine, Eric Engstrom, died of liver failure after taking (too much) Tylenol. Tylenol use over time can sneak up on you in the form of cumulative liver damage. No, I'm not a doctor and this isn't medical advice. Personally, a works-most-of-the-time treatment for headaches is going out for a walk. I don't know why it works, but it does.

You have to take a lot at one time, or chronic overdoses, to damage your liver.

Taking the maximum daily recommended dose (4g per day, thereabouts, in 1g doses) every day for months on end is fine and won’t do any damage.

I’m sorry about your friend but his experience is unrelated to the fact that using the medication as recommended, even long term, is not harmful in the least.

Post reply on HN