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Why language models hallucinate

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Re: Why language models hallucinate

#161

I find this rather oddly phrased. LLMs hallucinate because they are language models. They are stochastic models of language. They model language, not truth. If the “truthy” responses are common in their training set for a given prompt, you might be more likely to get something useful as output. Feels like we fell into that idea and said - ok this is useful as an information retrieval tool. And now we use RL to reinfo…

This strikes me as a perfect description of the core problem. Whenever I think about this, what sticks out to me is that other animals do all sorts of things that look like "intelligence," or at least cognition, and they do it totally without language. My cat clearly recognizes objects, assigns them different values ("scary," "tasty," "fun to play with"), interacts with them in some kind of loop, even predicts their behavior to some extent and acts curious about them (it was really fun to watch her try to figure out the construction guys when I had some work done on my house over a period of a few days). These strike me as much more foundational aspects of intelligence than language. Language has of course immeasurably contributed to what makes human cognition and intelligence, but it's almost certainly built on these pre-linguistic foundations. Another very good hint in this direction is all of the non-verbal thinking that humans have done. Einstein has a famous quote about thinking visually and physically, without using language at all. All of these are powerful suggestions that something else is going on, and most likely some aspect of these things are necessary for true intelligence.

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#162

I find this rather oddly phrased. LLMs hallucinate because they are language models. They are stochastic models of language. They model language, not truth. If the “truthy” responses are common in their training set for a given prompt, you might be more likely to get something useful as output. Feels like we fell into that idea and said - ok this is useful as an information retrieval tool. And now we use RL to reinfo…

People also tend not to understand the absurdity of assuming that we can make LLMs stop hallucinating. It would imply not only that truth is absolutely objective , but that it exists on some smooth manifold which language can be mapped to. That means there would be some high dimensional surface representing "all true things". Any fact could be trivially resolved as "true" or "false" simply by exploring whether or not…

A great book in this vein is "Language vs. Reality." The main thesis of the book is that language evolved to support approximate, ad hoc collaboration, and is woefully inadequate for doing the kind of work that e.g. scientists do, which requires incredible specificity and precision (hence the amount of effort devoted to definitions and quantification).

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#163
The output of language models can be considered a form of hallucination because these models do not possess real understanding or factual knowledge about the underlying concepts. Instead, they generate text by statistically predicting and assembling words based on vast training data and the input prompts, without true comprehension.

Since the training data can contain inaccuracies, conflicting information, or low-frequency facts that are essentially random, models can produce plausible-sounding but false statements. Unlike humans, language models have no awareness or grounding in real-world concepts; their generation is essentially an amalgam of stored patterns and input cues rather than grounded knowledge.

Furthermore, evaluation methods that reward accuracy without penalizing guessing encourage models to produce confident but incorrect answers rather than admit uncertainty or abstain from answering. This challenge is intrinsic to how language models generate fluent language: they lack external verification or true understanding, making hallucinations an inherent characteristic of their outputs rather than a malfunction.

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| a. What's with the -minus votes?

| b. I was only quoting ChatGPT :]

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "hallucination" mis-characterizes it. LLMs predict the likely tokens to follow the context. And they can make incorrect predictions. LLMs therefore don't have perfect accuracy of prediction. When their predictions are incorrect, people say they "hallucinate". Nobody questions why predictive weather models aren't perfectly accurate, because it makes sense that a prediction can be wrong. Marketing and hype has…

A weather model is made to predict the weather and used to predict the weather, so there you are right. A language model is made to predict language, but used to generate code or answers to math questions, that is not the same situation as a weather model. The language model is not made to solve math or generate correct code, if you ask it to predict the weather it wont try to predict the weather, it will just predic…

> A language model is made to predict language

Isn't a language model made to predict the next token in a series, which just so happens to be good for predicting not only natural languages, but also formal ones (code and math)?

Also, similar to what nelox said, as long as language (or sequences of tokens or what have you) can be "about" something (whatever that means), then it's possible that LLMs are encoding information about that "something". I'm being deliberately vague because I think that trying to be precise (by e.g. referring to latent spaces and so on) makes it sound like we've figured something out when in reality we haven't even found the right words to ask the questions.

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But an LLM is not answering "what is truth?". It's "answering" "what does an answer to the question "what is truth?" look like?". You don't actually know this right? You said what I'm saying is theoretically possible so you're contradicting what you're saying. >You're anthropomorphizing in using terms like "lying to us" or "know the truth". Yes, it's theoretically possible I suppose that they've secretly obtained so…

I think your assessment of the academic take on AI is wrong. We have a rather thorough understanding of the how/why of the mechanisms of LLMs, even if after training their results sometimes surprise us. Additionally, there is a very large body of academic research that digs into how LLMs seem to understand concepts and truths and, sure enough, examples of us making point edits to models to change the “facts” that the…

It’s not about what you think it’s about who’s factually right or wrong.

You referenced a work on model interpretability which is essentially the equivalent of putting on MRI or electrodes on the human brain and saying we understand the brain because some portion of it lights up when we show the brain a picture of a cow. There’s lots of work on model interpretability just like how there’s lots of science involving brain scans of the human brain… the problem is none of this gives insight into how the brain or an LLM works.

In terms of understanding LLMs we overall don’t understand what’s going on. It’s not like I didn’t know about attempts to decode what’s going on in these neural networks… I know all about it, but none of it changes the overall sentiment of: we don’t know how LLMs work.

This is fundamentally different from computers. We know how computers work such that we can emulate a computer. But for an LLM we can’t fully control it, we don’t fully understand why it hallucinates, we don’t understand how to fix the hallucination and we definitely cannot emulate an LLM in the same way we do for a computer. It isn’t just that we don’t understand LLMs. It’s that there isn’t anything in the history of human invention that we lack such fundamental understanding of.

Off of that logic, the facts are unequivocally clear: we don’t understand LLMs and your statement is wrong.

But it goes beyond this. I’m not just saying this. This is the accepted general sentiment in academia and you can watch that video of Hinton, the godfather of AI in academia basically saying the exact opposite of your claim here. He literally says we don’t understand LLMs.

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#166
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs don’t know the difference between true and false, or that there even is a difference between true and false, so I think it’s OpenAI whose definition is not useful. As for widely agreed upon, well, I’m assuming the purpose of this post is to try and reframe the discussion.

If an LLM outputs a statement, that is by definition either true or false, then we can know whether it is true or false. Whether the LLM "knows" is irrelevant. The OpenAI definition is useful because it implies hallucination is something that can be logically avoided. > I’m assuming the purpose of this post is to try and reframe the discussion It's to establish a meaningful and practical definition of "hallucinate" t…

"Logically avoided?"

OpenAI has a machine that emits plausible text. They're trying to argue that "emitting plausible text" is the hard problem, and "modeling the natural world, human consciousness, society, etc." is the easy one.

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your assessment of the academic take on AI is wrong. We have a rather thorough understanding of the how/why of the mechanisms of LLMs, even if after training their results sometimes surprise us. Additionally, there is a very large body of academic research that digs into how LLMs seem to understand concepts and truths and, sure enough, examples of us making point edits to models to change the “facts” that the…

It’s not about what you think it’s about who’s factually right or wrong. You referenced a work on model interpretability which is essentially the equivalent of putting on MRI or electrodes on the human brain and saying we understand the brain because some portion of it lights up when we show the brain a picture of a cow. There’s lots of work on model interpretability just like how there’s lots of science involving br…

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Re: Why language models hallucinate

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, LLMs don't have that knowledge. They can't inspect their own weights and examine the contents. It's a fundamental limitation of the technology. The sort of training you're talking about is content like, "ChatGPT was trained on research papers in the area of biology. It possesses knowledge of A, B, and C. It does not possess knowledge of X, Y and Z." But this merely creates the same problem in a loop - given a que…

Humans can't "inspect their own weights and examine the contents" either. No human has ever managed to read out his connectome without external instrumentation. There were entire human civilizations that thought that the seat of consciousness was the heart - which, for creatures that claim to know how their own minds work, is a baffling error to make. LLMs are quite similar in that to humans. They, too, have no idea…

I inspect and modify my own weights literally all the time. I just do it on a more abstract level than individual neurons.

I call this process "learning"

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#169

I find this rather oddly phrased. LLMs hallucinate because they are language models. They are stochastic models of language. They model language, not truth. If the “truthy” responses are common in their training set for a given prompt, you might be more likely to get something useful as output. Feels like we fell into that idea and said - ok this is useful as an information retrieval tool. And now we use RL to reinfo…

People also tend not to understand the absurdity of assuming that we can make LLMs stop hallucinating. It would imply not only that truth is absolutely objective , but that it exists on some smooth manifold which language can be mapped to. That means there would be some high dimensional surface representing "all true things". Any fact could be trivially resolved as "true" or "false" simply by exploring whether or not…

>People also tend not to understand the absurdity of assuming that we can make LLMs stop hallucinating. It would imply not only that truth is absolutely objective, but that it exists on some smooth manifold which language can be mapped to.

Frankly, this is a silly line of argument. There is a vast spectrum between regularly inventing non-existent citations and total omniscience. "We can't define objective truth" isn't a gotcha, it's just irrelevant.

Nobody in the field is talking about or working on completely eliminating hallucinations in some grand philosophical sense, they're just grinding away at making the error rate go down, because that makes models more useful. As shown in this article, relatively simple changes can have a huge effect and meaningful progress is being made very rapidly.

We've been here before, with scepticism about Wikipedia. A generation of teachers taught their students "you can't trust Wikipedia, because anyone can edit it". Two decades and a raft of studies later, it became clear that Wikipedia is at least as factually accurate as traditional encyclopedias and textbooks. The contemporary debate about the reliability of Wikipedia is now fundamentally the same as arguments about the reliability of any carefully-edited resource, revolving around subtle and insidious biases rather than blatant falsehoods.

Large neural networks do not have to be omniscient to be demonstrably more reliable than all other sources of knowledge, they just need to keep improving at their current rate for a few more years. Theoretical nitpicking is missing the forest for the trees - what we can empirically observe about the progress in AI development should have us bracing ourselves for radical social and economic transformation.

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#170
It’s interesting that most of the comments here read like projections of folk-psych intuitions. LLMs hallucinate because they “think” wrong, or lack self-awareness, or should just refuse. But none of that reflects how these systems actually work. This is a paper from a team working at the state of the art, trying to explain one of the biggest open challenges in LLMs, and instead of engaging with the mechanisms and evidence, we’re rehashing gut-level takes about what they must be doing. Fascinating.
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