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Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

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Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#301

Post by foxglacier »

susiecambria wrote: post #11

Not specific to tylenol and autism, but I think important: RFK Jr. will be issuing findings using "gold-standard science" and hold up the findings as definitive (as proof, etc.) at the same time that he completely minimizes and bemoans current scientific processes. While we may be able to tell the difference between RFK's BS science and real science, what does this mean for everyone else? Especially because RFK Jr. d…

Nobody should have been trusting science to begin with. Maybe it will help to show science-believers that they should be more cautious.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#302

Post by zwnow »

seattle_spring wrote: post #205
Gud wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I rarely take any form of painkiller, I've had headaches so bad I could barely exist. In those cases, pain killers were an important relief.

Yup. Anyone that flippant about "just a headache" definitely doesn't experience actual bad headaches themselves, and lacks empathy for those who do.

[flagged]

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#303

Post by kelnos »

tialaramex wrote: post #223
daveoc64 wrote: post #80

I'm always surprised at the hostility to Acetaminophen on HN (or Paracetamol as we call it here in the UK). It's one of the most commonly used medicines in the UK - and certainly the most popular painkiller. YouGov even did a survey confirming that - https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/docume... The safety aspects of it are not something that gets raised in the UK much - other than suicide attempts,…

If Paracetamol was invented today it would likely never receive an OTC (over the counter sale, meaning you can just buy it from a retail outlet the way you'd buy cough medicine or toothpaste) license in the UK. Yes, it's safe (and for a bunch of people including me, effective) at the licensed dose, but it's useless at about half that dose, and it's toxic, leading to very nasty deaths in some cases, at just about 3-4…

I'm by no means an expert in assessing OTC drug safety, but your efficacy window feels... fine... to me? I feel like it shouldn't be hard to avoid taking 3-4 times the effective dose of something? But I guess people still do it, and mess up their liver anyway.

I'm always very torn on how to best protect people from being stupid. The label on the bottle says not to use the drug for longer than a certain period. Sure, people might not read it, or might not understand the risks and ignore it. Sure, someone might be too dumb / in denial to realize they might be pregnant, and take inappropriate medication. I do really want to protect these people from themselves, but I also don't want to go to the doctor every time I have the common cold to get a prescription for one of the only things that clears up my symptoms enough so I can sleep.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#304

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

steve1977 wrote: post #272
kosma wrote: post #164

There is research correlating autism and mothers taking certain medications (painkillers, antidepressants). Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Autistic people have a vastly high risk of depression, and often have unusual pain thresholds, requiring more painkillers. I would not be surprised of the correlation was real, but the direction of action was reversed…

This was my thought as well. I’m likely on the spectrum (as I have learned recently, because of my kids) and I would consider myself hypersensitive. To a variety of sensory inputs - noise, smell, touch, heat, cold, tickling and probably also pain. The latter being hard to quantify of course. But I could certainly imagine that a mother with autistic traits could be someone who takes painkillers more often than the ave…

That’s very interesting! I’ve been sleuthing for personal reasons and I’ve recently arrived at the central nervous system element called the nucleus of the solitary tract (NTS), which integrates sensory processes including pain reception. I’m tracing a particular activator of the mineralocorticoid receptors for which NTS has special relevance, but the end target overall seems to be mTOR in the NTS, which isn’t so niche and is studied in autism.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#305

Post by malfist »

duskwuff wrote: post #294
knicholes wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Himalayan rabbits having black fur where their skin is cold and white fur where it's warm is a useful and obvious example of this.

That's a separate effect, known as acromelanism, or "point coloration". It's the result of an enzyme which is inactivated by higher temperatures, not a genetic change - the extent of pointing can change over an animal's lifetime, and the specific pattern isn't inherited. (For instance, if you somehow convinced a cat with color pointing to wear a sweater, its fur would stay light under that sweater, but any offspring…

A better example might be how some animals (turtles in particular) have their sex defined by their egg temperature

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#306

Post by [deleted] »

kosma wrote: post #164

There is research correlating autism and mothers taking certain medications (painkillers, antidepressants). Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Autistic people have a vastly high risk of depression, and often have unusual pain thresholds, requiring more painkillers. I would not be surprised of the correlation was real, but the direction of action was reversed…

[deleted]

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#307

Post by ejstronge »

foxglacier wrote: post #298
ejstronge wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah my wife is also pregnant and sometimes it is really tough on her but she doesn't use any medication other than baby aspirin for blood pressure. The alternative is exercise, anti-inflammatory foods, and also realizing that it isn't just your body anymore and you can't hurt somebody else's chances for a very small amount of pain relief. It very much is still your wife's body - what other sentient entity is avail…

> what other sentient entity is available for consultation? Surely you don't mean what you imply there? Not being sentient or available for consultation don't justify harming a person. A mother absolutely has a moral responsibility not to cause lifelong harm to the sentient entity her baby will later become. You wouldn't say excess alcohol consumption during pregnancy is only up to the mother's decision about her own…

>You wouldn't say excess alcohol consumption during pregnancy is only up to the mother's decision about her own body when there are adults walking around with terrible lives because of fetal alcohol syndrome.

I would - because the alternative means we are locking up current human beings to act as incubators for potential, future humans

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#308

Post by kelnos »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #40
spchampion2 wrote: post #4

Judging from the comments I've seen, nobody believes this because RFK has completely shot his credibility, and I don't blame them either. But it turns out there may actually be some emerging evidence to support this. This recent Harvard meta-analysis [1] from just last month looked at 46 different studies and suggested that there may actually be something happening here although it's not conclusive. Correlation but n…

The irony is that if Tylenol use in pregnancy actually does increase the risk of autism, RFK's destruction of trust in the government's scientific process will probably just push that sort result back. He's a charlatan and totally unscientific regardless. Luckily for those of us who care, there are private and foreign government organizations who still take healthcare and science seriously. Unfortunately the only san…

Right, I think this falls under the "broken clock correct twice a day" saying. RFK Jr says a lot of crazy things, but he probably does occasionally say something that makes sense, through no skill of his own.

I mean, he rails against processed food and color/dye additives, some of it being stuff that other countries with reputable FDA-analogues have banned. There could be something to that, even though I can confidently assume his opinions don't come from any sort of scientific rigor.

Some blue states are even (quietly?) jumping on the "MAHA" bandwagon on some issues. Not to categorically say "blue states right, red states wrong", but if your polarized political opponents are putting some of your ideas into practice, maybe not all your ideas are bad, regardless of how unscientifically you may have come by them.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#309

Post by ProjectArcturis »

pessimizer wrote: post #247
daveoc64 wrote: post #80

I'm always surprised at the hostility to Acetaminophen on HN (or Paracetamol as we call it here in the UK). It's one of the most commonly used medicines in the UK - and certainly the most popular painkiller. YouGov even did a survey confirming that - https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/docume... The safety aspects of it are not something that gets raised in the UK much - other than suicide attempts,…

It's weird that you're surprised, it's one of the most dangerous otc drugs, and is the leading cause of liver failure on the planet. I'm always surprised that British people treat it like aspirin, because an overdose can easily kill you. I'm serious. Over 50% of all liver failure is due to acetaminophen, and 20% of liver transplants. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4913076/

Well, c'mon, let's be fair. Your source says overdose-related liver failure. And reading further, most of the overdoses are either intentional (suicide attempts) or a result of addiction and opiate/acetaminophen combination drugs.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#310

Post by Izkata »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #40
spchampion2 wrote: post #4

Judging from the comments I've seen, nobody believes this because RFK has completely shot his credibility, and I don't blame them either. But it turns out there may actually be some emerging evidence to support this. This recent Harvard meta-analysis [1] from just last month looked at 46 different studies and suggested that there may actually be something happening here although it's not conclusive. Correlation but n…

The irony is that if Tylenol use in pregnancy actually does increase the risk of autism, RFK's destruction of trust in the government's scientific process will probably just push that sort result back. He's a charlatan and totally unscientific regardless. Luckily for those of us who care, there are private and foreign government organizations who still take healthcare and science seriously. Unfortunately the only san…

You're forgetting that for half the country that trust was destroyed years ago, and RFK actually being aware of and wanting to investigate evidence like this is restoring it.
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