Live data from Hacker News

Why language models hallucinate

openai.com

91–100 of 242 posts

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#91

AI hallucination is an inherent problem of AI. You can mitigate it, but the whole point of AI IS hallucination. If the result is useful to us, we don’t call it anything. If the result is not useful to us, we call it “hallucination”

It’s a problem for LLMs, not for AI in general.

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#92
post #9

They hallucinate because it's an ill-defined problem with two conflicting usecases: 1. If I tell it the first two lines of a story, I want the LLM to complete the story. This requires hallucination, because it has to make up things. The story has to be original. 2. If I ask it a question, I want it to reply with facts. It should not make up stuff. LMs were originally designed for (1) because researchers thought that…

Indeed - as Rebecca Parsons puts it, all an LLM knows how to do is hallucinate. Users just tend to find some of these hallucinations useful, and some not.

"A broken clock is right twice a day"

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#94
post #9

They hallucinate because it's an ill-defined problem with two conflicting usecases: 1. If I tell it the first two lines of a story, I want the LLM to complete the story. This requires hallucination, because it has to make up things. The story has to be original. 2. If I ask it a question, I want it to reply with facts. It should not make up stuff. LMs were originally designed for (1) because researchers thought that…

>This requires hallucination, because it has to make up things. The story has to be original. Is it a hallucination if the story is original? There's a difference between "what's the rest of this famous poem?" and "let's just make poetry".

It is irrelevant for the point being made: LLM does exactly the same thing in both cases - generates statistically plausible text, based on examples it was exposed during training.

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#95
Maybe I am oversimplifying it, but isn’t the reason that they are lossy map of worlds knowledge and this map will never be fully accurate unless it is the same size as the knowledge base.

The ability to learn patterns and generalize from them adds to this problem, because people then start using it for usecases it will never be able to solve 100% accurately (because of the lossy map nature).

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#96
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed - as Rebecca Parsons puts it, all an LLM knows how to do is hallucinate. Users just tend to find some of these hallucinations useful, and some not.

"A broken clock is right twice a day"

A stopped clock. There are many other ways to be wrong than right.

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed - as Rebecca Parsons puts it, all an LLM knows how to do is hallucinate. Users just tend to find some of these hallucinations useful, and some not.

that's wrong. there is probably a categorical difference between making something up due to some sort of inferential induction from the kv cache context under the pressure of producing a token -- any token -- and actually looking something up and producing a token. so if you ask, "what is the capital of colorado" and it answers "denver" calling it a Hallucination is nihilistic nonsense that paves over actually stoppi…

> that's wrong.

Why would anyone respond with so little nuance?

> a Hallucination

Oh, so your shift key wasn't broken all the time, then why aren't you using it in your sentences?

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#98

Maybe I am oversimplifying it, but isn’t the reason that they are lossy map of worlds knowledge and this map will never be fully accurate unless it is the same size as the knowledge base. The ability to learn patterns and generalize from them adds to this problem, because people then start using it for usecases it will never be able to solve 100% accurately (because of the lossy map nature).

As with a lot of AI stuff, Borges already wrote about it.

https://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/08/bblonder/phys120/do...

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#99
The author mentioned his own name so I looked him up. Computer scientist son of famous israeli professors married to famous computer scientist daughter of another famous israeli professor. I hope they have kids because those should be some pretty bright kids.

Re: Why language models hallucinate

#100
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a a super helpful way of putting it. I've tried to explain to my less technical friends and relatives that from the standpoint of an LLM, there's no concept of "truth", and that all it basically just comes up with the shape of what a response should look like and then fills in the blanks with pretty much anything it wants. My success in getting the point across has been mixed, so I'll need to try out this muc…

But this explanation doesn’t fully characterize it does it? Have the LLM talk about what “truth” is and the nature of LLM hallucinations and it can cook up an explanation that demonstrates it completely understands the concepts. Additionally when the LLM responds MOST of the answers are true even though quite a bit are wrong. If it had no conceptual understanding of truth than the majority of its answers would be wro…

But an LLM is not answering "what is truth?". It's "answering" "what does an answer to the question "what is truth?" look like?".

It doesn't need a conceptual understanding of truth - yes, there are far more wrong responses than right ones, but the right ones appear more often in the training data and so the probabilities assigned to the tokens which would make up a "right" one are higher, and thus returned more often.

You're anthropomorphizing in using terms like "lying to us" or "know the truth". Yes, it's theoretically possible I suppose that they've secretly obtained some form of emergent consciousness and also decided to hide that fact, but there's no evidence that makes that seem probable - to start from that premise would be very questionable scientifically.

A lot of people seem to be saying we don't understand what it's doing, but I haven't seen any credible proof that we don't. It looks miraculous to the relatively untrained eye - many things do, but just because I might not understand how something works, it doesn't mean nobody does.

Post reply on HN