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Age verification doesn’t work

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Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#101

Post by triceratops »

edu wrote: post #60
prmoustache wrote: post #45

It is not like kids/teenager who currently visit the big porn sites like pornhub will say: "Oh I can't, let's read a book instead" They'll just get it somewhere else, private chatrooms, torrents, etc and from probably even less regulated and more nefarious sources that also serve stuff super hardcore or completely illegal.

But it will be harder for them, the same way it's harder to get alcohol if you don't have a proper ID, and just that will prevent a good number of them of accessing it or at least accessing it in a regular way.

Why aren't there proposals for online age verification to be exactly like alcohol and tobacco?

You can show ID at a real world store and buy an age verification token. The token is good for exactly one user account on one website for one year. The website is responsible for ensuring no account sharing.

No need to store IDs online and it's still pretty hard for kids to access anything we don't want them to. Just like alcohol and tobacco there will be straw purchasers who re-sell to minors, and we accept that imperfection. We also punish people who re-sell or give alcohol to minors.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#102

Post by dragonwriter »

triceratops wrote: post #101
edu wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it will be harder for them, the same way it's harder to get alcohol if you don't have a proper ID, and just that will prevent a good number of them of accessing it or at least accessing it in a regular way.

Why aren't there proposals for online age verification to be exactly like alcohol and tobacco? You can show ID at a real world store and buy an age verification token. The token is good for exactly one user account on one website for one year. The website is responsible for ensuring no account sharing. No need to store IDs online and it's still pretty hard for kids to access anything we don't want them to. Just like…

> Why aren't there proposals for online age verification to be exactly like alcohol and tobacco?

> You can show ID at a real world store and buy an age verification token. The token is good for exactly one user account on one website for one year

I don’t know if you’ve ever bought alcohol or tobacco, either in person or online, but the process in either case, in my experience, does not involve showing government ID at a private business separate from the one you are going to purchase the product from in advance to purchase a single-account, single-year token which you then use to prove age when you purchase the good in question.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#103

Post by triceratops »

dragonwriter wrote: post #102
triceratops wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren't there proposals for online age verification to be exactly like alcohol and tobacco? You can show ID at a real world store and buy an age verification token. The token is good for exactly one user account on one website for one year. The website is responsible for ensuring no account sharing. No need to store IDs online and it's still pretty hard for kids to access anything we don't want them to. Just like…

> Why aren't there proposals for online age verification to be exactly like alcohol and tobacco? > You can show ID at a real world store and buy an age verification token. The token is good for exactly one user account on one website for one year I don’t know if you’ve ever bought alcohol or tobacco, either in person or online, but the process in either case, in my experience, does not involve showing government ID a…

I don't crack open the beer in front of the cashier either. That's even illegal in many jurisdictions. I go home and drink it in private, or sometimes with friends. They have literally no way to know if I give it to a minor. But that's considered good enough age verification for a substance that can be lethal if consumed to excess or before driving (which teenagers are allowed to do).

I haven't heard a good explanation for why my proposal is bad other than it's not perfect. Well teenagers sometimes get their hands on beer too and we haven't called for age verification lock technology on beer can tabs yet.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#104

Post by DrillShopper »

Aeolun wrote: post #12
nomilk wrote: post #6

The choice citizens have now is between an 'internet licence' (submit ID's to myriad sites), or an 'internet tax' (VPN). Super annoying! Given Australia doesn't even require Age Verification on porn sites (only on social media sites), the incentives hint this was strongly supported by legacy media (90% of Aussie media is owned by two companies, Newscorp and Nine Entertainment). The internet licence will make it diffi…

> The internet licence will make it difficult for both authors and readers on alternative media platforms Not really? Like the article says, they’ll just go to sites that don’t require age verification.

Once again showing that the best way to make money in that market is to just break the law.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#105

Post by DrillShopper »

maccard wrote: post #39
jakobnissen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But kids (and adults) are exposed to all kinds of fantasies. War is not like Call of Duty. The Mafia is not like GTA. Monarchy is not like in the fairy tales. Romance is not like Twilight. BDSM is not like 50 Shades of Grey. For all these things, we rely on people's world experience and common sense to figure it out. I think it's pretty obvious that sex is not like porn, and I don't understand why so many people are…

We shouldn’t be giving 6 year olds access to call of duty or GTA either. PEGI ratings (although overzealous) are a god starting point. I wouldn’t withhold an average 10 year old from a 12 rated game, but I wouldn’t give them access to an 18+. Also, we (usually) talk about these things - video games are not the only source of discourse of violence or conflict, but sex is such a taboo topic that it’s highly likely most…

> PEGI ratings (although overzealous) are a god starting point.

PEGI says FIFA Ultimate Team: Parental Wallet Draining is PEGI 3. Maybe PEGI should clean its house before we defer to it.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#106

Post by jennyholzer »

Retric wrote: post #94
chii wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a feedback loop - smoking was advertised as being cool way back when, which led to movie characters smoking to appear cool, which then reinforces the advertising. When there was a push to regulate smoking in advertising, it cut the original feedback loop which made film/tv characters not use smoking as a sign of being cool. This led to advertising (if it were allowed) to be less effective at portrayal of coolnes…

Vaping took off as a cool thing without a bunch of cool people vaping in movies. People stopped smoking in movies at the same time a lot of other smoking related things changed. Similarly smokers likely notice people smoking in movies more than non smokers.

I remember a viral twitter photo of Sophie Turner smoking a Juul while filming the last episodes of Game of Thrones

Juul changed the cultural standing of vaping and (for a very brief moment of time) made it "cool" by means of social media celebrity promotion. They were hit with pretty aggressive punishment for this by the US FDA if I'm not mistaken.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#107

Post by jennyholzer »

Retric wrote: post #95
bgarbiak wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was cool to smoke when all the cool guys in the movies were smoking. One of the reasons it’s not cool anymore is that the cool guys in the movies don’t smoke nowadays (although they do it more often now than they did ten years ago; which is worrying). The correlation between an exposure and initiating smoking is proved: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27043456/

Correlation is not causation, vaping didn’t need movies.

Vaping needed social media

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#108

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

Bender wrote: post #82
nomilk wrote: post #6

The choice citizens have now is between an 'internet licence' (submit ID's to myriad sites), or an 'internet tax' (VPN). Super annoying! Given Australia doesn't even require Age Verification on porn sites (only on social media sites), the incentives hint this was strongly supported by legacy media (90% of Aussie media is owned by two companies, Newscorp and Nine Entertainment). The internet licence will make it diffi…

an 'internet licence' (submit ID's to myriad sites), or an 'internet tax' (VPN). Or learning one of the many non-http ways that people share porn and other things or people sharing among friends on small private or semi-private forums, chat servers or sharing porn in video games as many teens do. Beyond that is paying the slowness tax of tor hidden .onion sites which can be sped up by disabling 3 hops.

That is a tax

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#109

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

blitzar wrote: post #34
general1465 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given Australia doesn't even require Age Verification on porn sites (only on social media sites) Am I only one who sees loophole in creating a social media site, which will be a porn site first? FaceHub or Pornbook.

It's called X.

How am I going to find cisgender porn on there though

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#110

Post by ipaddr »

delusional wrote: post #90
Meneth wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like, they can't exist without the lucrative market of the 90% of current customers who will refuse age verification and go elsewhere.

Do you seriously believe that 90% of current porn consumers would rather watch their pornography on websites where it's intermingled with child pornography and revenge porn, than verify their age? Are you seriously arguing that 90% of porn viewers are against digital age verification, even though about 60% of the population (in my home country) approve of the use for purchasing physical goods? In your reading of the…

Yes. Sending your government issued id to random porn sites is asking for your identity to be stolen. Sites filter out any child porn because those are different serious laws. I can live with revenge porn because it's really amateur porn labelled another way. Like supporting eco friendly porn where you walk to the hotel instead of drive.

Regulating markets where someone unvested group of people decide the rules on what can sell /how it can be sold /who can buy or sell is always worse than not regulating it in the first place.

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