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I ditched Docker for Podman

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Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#271

Post by rweichler »

drzaiusx11 wrote: post #211
rweichler wrote: post #208

On the topic of ditching Docker, has anyone else created a custom test harness with QEMU? I feel like I'm the only person doing it this way. QEMU's target userbase is emulators in general, which is a much broader audience with way more development effort going into it, therefore I don't think it can ever go "out of fashion" or get hijacked by perverse corporate interests like Docker can. Podman seems to have the same…

This is what Lima is, which is the basis for Colima which runs on top with all the Docker runtime stuff https://github.com/lima-vm/lima https://github.com/abiosoft/colima

Interesting, thanks. Looks much better than Docker/Podman. But seems to suffer from the same incentive issue. I think I'll stick with my raw QEMU setup, Lima seems like QEMU + batteries, but I already built the batteries.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#272

Post by jayd16 »

coffeecoders wrote: post #219
jayd16 wrote: post #206

Any alternative for Windows containers?

There isn't anything really. The WSL backend is the pain point, which doesn't go away with Docker or Podman or anything else.

I actually mean windows kernel containers so I don't think wsl is involved.

Windows server can run them without docker but for local dev I'm not sure what the alternative is.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#273

Post by [deleted] »

t43562 wrote: post #21

To provide 1 contrary opinion to all the others saying they have a problem: Podman rocks for me! I find docker hard to use and full of pitfalls and podman isn't any worse. On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win!

[deleted]

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#274

Post by skydhash »

ramon156 wrote: post #241
awoimbee wrote: post #220

The main issue is podman support on Ubuntu. Ubuntu ships outdated podman versions that don't work out of the box. So I use podman v5, GitHub actions uses podman v3, and my coworkers on Ubuntu use docker. So now my script must work with old podman, recent podman and docker

One of the reasons I don't use Ubuntu/debian is because it's just too damn slow with updates. I'm noticing that to this day it's still an issue. Yes I could use flatpack on ubuntu, however I feel like this is partly something Ubuntu/Debian should provide out-of-the-box

I use debian specifically for things to be kept the same. Once I got things setup, I don’t really want random updates to come and break things.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#275

Post by prmoustache »

miki123211 wrote: post #249

I've been dealing with setting up Podman for work over the last week or so, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. If you use rootless Podman on a Redhat-derived distribution (which means Selinux), along with a non-root user in your container itself, you're in for a world of pain.

How so? I have been using exlusively podman on Fedora for the most part of the last 7 years or so.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#277

Post by iTokio »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #268
miki123211 wrote: post #249

I've been dealing with setting up Podman for work over the last week or so, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. If you use rootless Podman on a Redhat-derived distribution (which means Selinux), along with a non-root user in your container itself, you're in for a world of pain.

Sounds like you need to grant the user sufficient permissions. What else might go wrong?

Mounting Volume and dealing with FS permissions.

They are many different workarounds but it’s a known pain point.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#278

Post by sigio »

miki123211 wrote: post #249

I've been dealing with setting up Podman for work over the last week or so, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. If you use rootless Podman on a Redhat-derived distribution (which means Selinux), along with a non-root user in your container itself, you're in for a world of pain.

I've setup a few podman machines (on debian), and generally liked it. I've been struggling for 2 days now to get a k8s server up, but that's not giving my any joy. (It doesn't like our nftables setup)

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#279

Post by marcel_hecko »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #268
miki123211 wrote: post #249

I've been dealing with setting up Podman for work over the last week or so, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. If you use rootless Podman on a Redhat-derived distribution (which means Selinux), along with a non-root user in your container itself, you're in for a world of pain.

Sounds like you need to grant the user sufficient permissions. What else might go wrong?

It's mostly the subgid subuid mapping of ids between guest and host which is non trivial to understand in rootless envs. Add selinux in the mix....

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#280

Post by cpuguy83 »

kdumont wrote: post #4

Both podman and docker have pretty poor error handling in my experience. It depends on the error, but for me it often comes down to a docker compose misconfiguration, resource, permissions, etc. In docker always find the errors quite difficult to trace back to root cause. In podman you get a python a stack trace. I wish both projects would assert different assumptions/requirements at runtime and report errors/warning…

BTW, undrstandable to not have an example on the spot.

In general we do actually try to provide full context for errors from dockerd. Some things can be cryptic because, frankly, they are cryptic and require digging into what really happened (typical of errors from runc), but we do tend to wrap things so at least you know where the call site was.

There's also tracing data you can hook into, which could definitely be improved (some legacy issues around context propagation that need to be solved).

I've definitely seen, in the past, my fair share of errors that simply say "invalid argument" (typically this is a kernel message) without any context but have worked to inject context everywhere or do better at handling errors that we can.

So definitely interested in anything you've seen that could be improved because no one likes to get an error message that you can't understand.

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