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I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#191

Post by spiffytech »

jghn wrote: post #186
spiffytech wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The magnitude of person-to-person variation makes it tough to get signal out of averages. I read a blogger say a 40-mile trip is exceptionally log for him, so why worry about EV range? Meanwhile we put 160 miles on our EV yesterday doing ordinary errands that all got stacked on the same day. 100+ mile days happen a few times a month for us¹. That 160 miles is 65% of our 0–100 range, or 108% of the 20–80 range. And we…

I am not intending this as a backhanded way of suggesting your experience is invalid. I get that it's quite possible in some areas. However, I think the point of the GP is that the number of people who say this is their typical experience is going to be larger than the number of people for whom it actually is their typical experience. By that I mean: your story is quite common in discussions like this, both online an…

That's fair. FWIW my city lists the mean commute time as 23.6 minutes, p90 26.6. Travel in my area is dominated by freeway arteries, so 15-ish miles each way is a fair estimate for the mean.

https://raleighnc.gov/planning/services/city-profile

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#192

Post by illegalsmile »

sitharus wrote: post #156
liendolucas wrote: post #37

Looks like you bought a faulty computer which happens to have 4 wheels buddy. The neutral and parking brake issues: that just by itself should make Nissan stocks plummet. 2025 and we have these issues? It definitely looks an involution to me. Things we humans are still lame at: adapters. Power adapters, cable data adapters. Why do we have bazillions adapters? Can't we just design one adapter for the whole world that…

What is the neutral issue? It sounds annoying to switch in to, but when do you even need neutral in an EV? The reasons I’ve needed it while driving ICE cars aren’t there in an EV, because it’s the same as the car being off. Come to think of it, I have no idea how to get my car in to neutral.

I don't know about the neutral issue... The only time I use the neutral is to go through an automatic car wash. Hold the brake and push the selector to the left/neutral for ~3 seconds.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#193

Post by pbronez »

geerlingguy wrote: post #97
usui wrote: post #54

How can you write "I bought the cheapest EV" in the blog title, and have a section called "Why buy Leaf?" followed by a one-liner zinger aphorism "Price." without writing... the price you bought your used Nissan Leaf for? Someone might want to reference how much it cost back in 2025 a few years down the road.

$17k minus an extra $2k added to my Camry's trade-in value, and it's eligible for the $4k used vehicle EV tax rebate at the end of the year. So out the door $15k with 36k miles and 94% doh battery, I was satisfied with the deal. At the end of the tax year I'll have paid $11k for the car, effectively. I tacked on the price of the CHAdeMO adapter mentally to the price I offered, since I knew I'd want it for the one or…

BMW i3 are going for about the same.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#194

Post by sandos »

Okkef wrote: post #128
haunter wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were me then for that much money I'd just buy a used Tesla Model 3

A used tesla model 3 in the Netherlands is upwards of 20k euro, so quite a different price bracket.

Also, guessing here, the insurance is quite a bit higher.

The 400+hp Teslas are super-expensive to insure here in Sweden. Like 3x the price of only slightly cheaper, but less powerful EVs.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#195

Post by BobaFloutist »

sillyfluke wrote: post #122
stavros wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep the car at 20-80% when at home and driving around the city, I charge once a week. Before a trip, I let it charge to 100%, then charge to 80% on the trip (otherwise you waste time on the slow parts of the charge cycle). It's really not a hassle at all. What's a hassle right now is finding a charger, as there aren't enough fast ones along the trip, but I've had the car for a year and have never needed to do a tr…

Just to clarify, the hassle is needing mutiple recharges on a longish trip, not urban driving. The regret is due to unmet expectations based on advertised range as opposed to pratical range.

I mean the funny thing is that I've never driven or wanted a car with more than a 10-gallon tank, so my "ICE" (it's a Prius, so it actually does better than a full ICE car would) range is already <400 miles. Having to stop at a "gas station" for 30 minutes instead of 10 minutes every 4-6 hours really doesn't seem like that big of an ordeal, especially since I'm probably going to be stopping for meal breaks on that interval anyway. And if you just need a top-off to make the last 100 miles rather than a full charge, you can probably do it in 10-15 minutes anyway, right?

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#196

Post by throwaway-blaze »

msh wrote: post #168
masklinn wrote: post #25

> Lack of standards: For 'L3' DC Fast Charging, the Leaf has a CHAdeMO port. Teslas and many newer EVs have NACS. Then there's CCS1 and CCS2. And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. It's not like gas stations, like with Shell, BP, Buckee's, etc. where you just drive up, stick the gas nozzle in your tank, and squeeze. Afaik in Europe, CCS2 is the standard (and mandator…

In many countries charging a car in a wallplug is a fire hazard (they are not rated for the heat).

This doesn't make sense. Wall plugs (like circuit breakers) are designed for a particular max amperage draw. If I have a 10A 120V circuit and wall plug, I can't charge my car at 8A?

I have wall ovens that connect via a 50A circuit. Do I need to worry about fire hazards when I bake something for hours and hours?

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#197

Post by barbazoo »

msh wrote: post #168
masklinn wrote: post #25

> Lack of standards: For 'L3' DC Fast Charging, the Leaf has a CHAdeMO port. Teslas and many newer EVs have NACS. Then there's CCS1 and CCS2. And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. It's not like gas stations, like with Shell, BP, Buckee's, etc. where you just drive up, stick the gas nozzle in your tank, and squeeze. Afaik in Europe, CCS2 is the standard (and mandator…

In many countries charging a car in a wallplug is a fire hazard (they are not rated for the heat).

Source?

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#198

Post by jimnotgym »

kbos87 wrote: post #27
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #4

* Limiting the number of QCs (Quick Charges / DC Fast Charge), as this heats up the uncooled Leaf battery, degrading it slightly each time, especially on hotter days * Keeping the charge between 50-80% when manageable * Charging up to 100% at least once a month, and letting it 'top off' to rebalance the pack for at least a few hours afterwards * Not driving like a maniac, despite having more torque in this car than I…

I don't think about any of this and never have. My 2022 Model Y has 60,000 miles on it and the battery has only lost a negligible amount of health/range since I bought it.

What was the purchase cost difference between a Model Y and a Leaf in 2022?

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#199

Post by Volundr »

throwaway-blaze wrote: post #196
msh wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many countries charging a car in a wallplug is a fire hazard (they are not rated for the heat).

This doesn't make sense. Wall plugs (like circuit breakers) are designed for a particular max amperage draw. If I have a 10A 120V circuit and wall plug, I can't charge my car at 8A? I have wall ovens that connect via a 50A circuit. Do I need to worry about fire hazards when I bake something for hours and hours?

Not an electrician, consult a real one for any actual electrical work or questions.

It's complicated. Heat builds up over time. So for example your standard 15 amp breaker on a 14 gauge wire in the US is rated for 15 amps of intermittent use, but if you draw that continuously without letting the heat dissipate it becomes a fire hazard. IIRC circuits are generally rated for ~80% of their max load for continuous use, so that 15 amp circuit is considered good for 12 continuous. Or in your 10 amp example 8 should be ok.

Your oven and circuit should be sized such that your long cooks aren't a concern, if you look at it's label you'll probably find it has a max draw of well below 50amps, but if you have actual doubts ask a professional.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#200

Post by jimnotgym »

theshrike79 wrote: post #70
mschuster91 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting QC events is easy enough. A daily commuter vehicle can easily trickle charge over night, and even the measly 40 kWh old used Leaf can get you 200km a charge - assuming an average commute of 20 km for Germany, that's a whole work week worth of battery life. The only time you as an average person actually "need" QC is for the yearly vacation road trip, but as the author writes, renting an ICE or chungus electr…

This is the thing that ICE people need to internalise. You THINK you're driving long distances every day and you THINK charging is a massive hassle where you have to drive to a Charging Site and wait for the car to charge for HOURS. When in reality you plug in at home and have a full battery every morning. And when the infrastructure is properly built (yay Finland), you can get a week's charge when you're getting gro…

I had a leaf on demonstration for 24 hours. I was impressed with it. I drove the 50 miles to work and back, and put it on slow charge knowing I had 16 hours until I needed it. No problem. When I came to drive it in the morning it hadn't charged. It was actually a problem with the plug in the garage, it must have gone off a few minutes after I plugged it in. Now what? Wait 16 more hours?

A couple of weeks later I went on holiday. I wouldn't be able to charge where I was stopping, and there were no chargers within 15 miles. I kept my diesel.

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