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I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#171

Post by geerlingguy »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #134
dzhiurgis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could've bought Model 3 for this and spend $300 for third party buttons. It has software thats actually somewhat hackable and car is far more capable. But I understand it's hard to recommend Tesla these days lol.

Ignoring any PR or political motivations, I’d argue the Leaf is a better choice for many people. I’m biased as I have one, quite similar, but let me give a pros from my perspective: - a traditional car feeling, knobs, buttons, the way cars have been for decades prior - very very reliable. basically never needs anything except wiper fluid. no software updates or crashing. I don’t have stats but might be one of most re…

Also CarPlay, which was on my shortlist of features I actually cared for in any newer car. Silly of Tesla to not support it out of the box (IMO).

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#172

Post by dreamcompiler »

magicalhippo wrote: post #143
masklinn wrote: post #25

> Lack of standards: For 'L3' DC Fast Charging, the Leaf has a CHAdeMO port. Teslas and many newer EVs have NACS. Then there's CCS1 and CCS2. And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. It's not like gas stations, like with Shell, BP, Buckee's, etc. where you just drive up, stick the gas nozzle in your tank, and squeeze. Afaik in Europe, CCS2 is the standard (and mandator…

> And that the rental company (AVIS) does not provide an AC adapter Here in Norway, new EVs are no longer allowed to be sold with AC adapters, due to the potential fire hazard. At least that's the reason I got when I purchased my current EV. Perhaps a EU thing, wouldn't surprise me.

This surprises me, given that almost every country has safer electric plugs than the US. Heat is a function of current and car chargers limit themselves to less than the current the plug is rated for. "Less than" equals 80% in the US.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#173

Post by vannevar »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #109
geerlingguy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$17k minus an extra $2k added to my Camry's trade-in value, and it's eligible for the $4k used vehicle EV tax rebate at the end of the year. So out the door $15k with 36k miles and 94% doh battery, I was satisfied with the deal. At the end of the tax year I'll have paid $11k for the car, effectively. I tacked on the price of the CHAdeMO adapter mentally to the price I offered, since I knew I'd want it for the one or…

Could've bought Model 3 for this and spend $300 for third party buttons. It has software thats actually somewhat hackable and car is far more capable. But I understand it's hard to recommend Tesla these days lol.

Could also have bought a used Chevy Bolt in this price range, with CCS, ~250mi range, and CarPlay.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#174

Post by joeyh »

fusslo wrote: post #138
Bairfhionn wrote: post #24

My Problem was always the Range Anxiety. Until I got an EV and realized it's not really an issue. There is always an App for that (and even on my car the software gets improved in that regard). Infrastructure is getting better, even companies starting to see it as a benefit to have cheap/free chargers at their offices to get people back. I see more and more electric trucks on the roads. It feels good.

is there a term like 'charge anxiety'? I was debating an electric vehicle in 2023. There are maybe 10 people (out of about 200) at work that have electric cars. My teammate is one of the ten. He wakes up early to get a charger. He tracks down the other owners to ask them to use the charger after lunch. They started a group chat about the chargers. My local grocery store has a bank of superchargers right in the middle…

I have driven 20 thousand EV miles in the past year, with 50% of my charging being at public chargers (and 50% at home). I have never needed to wait in line, and have never needed to interact with anyone regarding charging.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#175

Post by dreamcompiler »

> I want an EV that looks like a Camry. Just blend in and don't stand out.

The Camry has a drag coefficient of about 0.36.

The Leaf is about 0.28.

https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List

Drag coefficient matters a lot for EVs. Air resistance reduces the range of all cars, but you notice the decrease in an EV. (When I plan a long trip, I use windy.com to see if I'll have a headwind or a tailwind and I plan accordingly.)

That's why EVs look different. And why EV trucks often have terrible range, even though they have more room for batteries.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#176

Post by msh »

nottorp wrote: post #127
marcusb wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've driven an EV on 500 mile trips. Getting out and stretching your legs for 20-25 minutes once every three hours isn't "super annoying." If all I did was drive around all day, every day for 500 miles at a stretch, it might be, but not nearly as annoying as routinely driving for 500 miles. For most people, the vast majority of their driving takes place well within the range of the typical BEV and range anxiety is a…

This is tiring. Not everyone lives in the suburbs with a plug at ground level and getting out and stretching your legs is great when you choose where you do it but not when you do it in the queue for charging...

I have never been in a queue for charging in my 5 years of ev ownership. This includes 3 long roadtrips (Denmark to southern France so 1800 km to 2200 km each way) during summer vacations.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#177

Post by dreamcompiler »

CHAdeMO is Betamax all over again. It's the best standard because it supports bidirectional power flow, which theoretically allows EVs to support the grid during demand spikes.

But if course CHAdeMO is dying. NACS is second best because it's less bulky than CCS, and NACS is winning in the US so the situation is less bad than it might have been.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#178

Post by masklinn »

guenthert wrote: post #170
masklinn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who have bought them abroad are sometimes advised to keep the battery between 20%-80-90% full. You want to keep batteries roughly in that range to maximise their lifetime health. That doesn't mean the battery will explode if you do otherwise once in a while e.g. you charge limit the car to 80% for your daily drive and before a big trip you charge to 100%. Route planners will generally keep you in that band a…

> You want to keep batteries roughly in that range to maximise their lifetime health. Huh? The car isn't doing that for you? Prius hybrids sure are (the old ones using NiMH batteries tried to keep charge between 40% and 80%).

A hybrid can do that by running the ICE (or not).

An EV can do that how exactly, refusing to run? Mugging the elderly for loose kWh?

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#179

Post by stanski »

mschuster91 wrote: post #19
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #4

* Limiting the number of QCs (Quick Charges / DC Fast Charge), as this heats up the uncooled Leaf battery, degrading it slightly each time, especially on hotter days * Keeping the charge between 50-80% when manageable * Charging up to 100% at least once a month, and letting it 'top off' to rebalance the pack for at least a few hours afterwards * Not driving like a maniac, despite having more torque in this car than I…

Limiting QC events is easy enough. A daily commuter vehicle can easily trickle charge over night, and even the measly 40 kWh old used Leaf can get you 200km a charge - assuming an average commute of 20 km for Germany, that's a whole work week worth of battery life. The only time you as an average person actually "need" QC is for the yearly vacation road trip, but as the author writes, renting an ICE or chungus electr…

I thought about this too - own a small electric vehicle for 90% of the family needs and rent a bigger SUV when the need arises.

Until you do the math and realize that the 3-4 annual trips of multiple days would end up costing thousands of dollars in rental fees per year. Plus the usual inconveniences around renting.

Suddenly the math does not look so appealing.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#180

Post by dreamcompiler »

fusslo wrote: post #138
Bairfhionn wrote: post #24

My Problem was always the Range Anxiety. Until I got an EV and realized it's not really an issue. There is always an App for that (and even on my car the software gets improved in that regard). Infrastructure is getting better, even companies starting to see it as a benefit to have cheap/free chargers at their offices to get people back. I see more and more electric trucks on the roads. It feels good.

is there a term like 'charge anxiety'? I was debating an electric vehicle in 2023. There are maybe 10 people (out of about 200) at work that have electric cars. My teammate is one of the ten. He wakes up early to get a charger. He tracks down the other owners to ask them to use the charger after lunch. They started a group chat about the chargers. My local grocery store has a bank of superchargers right in the middle…

EVs make less sense for people who don't have a dedicated home or work charger. But if you're lucky enough to have one, EVs make a great deal of sense.
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