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A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

theatlantic.com

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Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#311

Post by glitchc »

godelski wrote: post #261
glitchc wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beliefs separate from values.. that's a strange dichotomy. Do you harbour beliefs that conflict with your values?

> Do you harbour beliefs that conflict with your values? I'm not sure how long you've been human for, but this is in fact a common thing. Common for all living creatures really. Unfortunately we cannot always uphold the full idealized versions of our beliefs due to constraints of the world we live in. But on the other hand, if your beliefs weren't beyond our capabilities then we'd never improve. (I'll assume it is "n…

I can tell from the ad hominem that you have confused pop philosophy for the real thing. A book on ethics might be a good start. I suggest Blackburn. We'll just leave it at that.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#312

Post by sandworm101 »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #292
sandworm101 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And lawyers also use paralegals, that doesnt mean we let law students hire them to write papers or assist during exams. Docs have nurses, but i believe docs still write exams solo. And soldiers have buddies, but you arent allowed to pay them to do your fitness test. That a tool is common in the real world is not an excuse to let students outsource the work that is the heart of learning.

I bet we'd have better lawyers if they did teach them how to manage paralegals to do the grunt work. I really wouldn't hold the legal profession up as "this is how to do it". And doctors do not "have nurses" in the way that you've said; they're entirely different professions. I'll allow that it's just a poor example of the point you're trying to make. > That a tool is common in the real world is not an excuse to let…

Paralegals are also a totally different profession than lawyers. The relationship is very similar to that of doctors and nurses. They each deal with different aspects of the client "care" chain and work directly together at various meet points in that chain. And as seasoned nurses watch over new doctors, seasoned paralegals often watch over new lawyers.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#313

Post by lurking_swe »

BrenBarn wrote: post #246
AppleBananaPie wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised the answer of doing all exercises (including essay writing) in class is apparently not obvious. High school me was a moron and should not be trusted to do the real work and people who know better should force him to practice the skills lol Once he's grown and has a job he will one day realize and be thankful for the teachers that forced him to do the work. Obviously not true for all students but I don't…

Part of the problem is that in some areas schools (and parents) have leaned so heavily into certain notions of "equity" or "care" that they no longer are willing to require anything so specific. I use quotes because while I think there is value in moving more towards those goals than schools often did in the past, I think it's possible to take it too far. At some point there has to be some sort of standard that has t…

the funny thing is those kind of parents are just handicapping their own kids. Or is it sad? Maybe both.

I’m sure they’ll be very proud when their child grows into a half functioning adult that can’t cope with real life.

These type of parents are so shortsighted it literally hurts my brain to interact with them lol.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#314

Post by HPsquared »

zelos wrote: post #310

Maybe AGI is impossible not for any technical reasons, but because AI is a self-limiting technology? As AI improves, it destroys the educational system that creates the researchers that develop it.

LLMs democratize personal tutoring. AI can massively improve education, if done right.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#315

Post by sandworm101 »

HPsquared wrote: post #314
zelos wrote: post #310

Maybe AGI is impossible not for any technical reasons, but because AI is a self-limiting technology? As AI improves, it destroys the educational system that creates the researchers that develop it.

LLMs democratize personal tutoring. AI can massively improve education, if done right.

They are working well now because they live off the pile of human-created online content. Give it a few years. When all the AI has to feed on is the output of other AI bots, they will likely hit a reality wall and halucinate themselves into insanity. Forget new physics. It will probably be hard to get an AI to admit the earth isnt flat.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#316

Post by azangru »

In the novel Tom Brown's School Days [0], published in mid 19-th century and depicting a public school in the first quarter of that century, there is a scene describing how students those days used "vulgus-books": collections of previous years' students' homeworks in Latin that new students copied from for their assignments in Latin composition. There was a boy named Arthur in that story who refused to copy from other students' essays, and worked on the compositions himself. He also tried to convince his friends to abandon that practice of copying, and to write their assignments on their own.

This is what this article reminded me of. The student writes how her classmates use help from AI as if she cannot decide for herself to do the work on her own if she cares about learning. She writes as if she is devoid of agency.

The Atlantic published a post on reddit about this article, titled "I’m a High Schooler. AI Is Demolishing My Education." [1] And yet, it is the other students that the author primarily focuses on. Why does other students' cheating demolish _her_ education?

[0] - https://gutenberg.org/cache/epub/1480/pg1480.txt

[1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtificialInteligence/comments/1n7o...

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#317

Post by komali2 »

azangru wrote: post #316

In the novel Tom Brown's School Days [0], published in mid 19-th century and depicting a public school in the first quarter of that century, there is a scene describing how students those days used "vulgus-books": collections of previous years' students' homeworks in Latin that new students copied from for their assignments in Latin composition. There was a boy named Arthur in that story who refused to copy from othe…

That's an interesting point, but one way I can think is that as AI generated homework is completed by AI, "all natural" student performance may seem abysmal in comparison. The students who use AI to do the "grunt work" like paper writing will have more time to do things like attend office hours, befriend professors, network, get internships, or whatever other useful things they can do with their time.

It makes me think of the rampant cheating culture in the PRC. Cheating generally isn't considered immoral, or, it may be, but the attitude is basically "well everyone cheats, so you better do it too or you'll be left behind." University becomes a performance, and all thoughts are turned towards how to present the best in that performance. If you ask someone that buys into this system about the value of, idk, writing a paper so as to learn the material, they'll be very confused. What's the point of learning the material? The only thing that matters is getting the best grade possible. Then you can get the highest paying job possible. That's all that matters.

This is of course not universal, the PRC is a country with a gajillion people in it, but this is what I experienced at university there and when I returned to the USA and was the defacto "PRC student tutor" at my university because of my Mandarin and time spent there. I must have been offered money to write essays for people over fifty times.

So, I can imagine this happening with AI. What does it matter if you learn the material? You use AI to get a good score and then you use AI to do your job anyway so who cares. AI written emails summarized by AI, replies written by AIs, reports generated by AI, sent, summarized by another AI...

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#318

Post by dsr_ »

azangru wrote: post #316

In the novel Tom Brown's School Days [0], published in mid 19-th century and depicting a public school in the first quarter of that century, there is a scene describing how students those days used "vulgus-books": collections of previous years' students' homeworks in Latin that new students copied from for their assignments in Latin composition. There was a boy named Arthur in that story who refused to copy from othe…

If you don't have anyone around who understands the material differently from the way you do, you can't discuss it with them.

This is not particularly worrisome in basic arithmetic, but severely limits history, philosophy, and arts.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#320

Post by al_caan »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #272

An ex-gf of mine spent four years going through university to become an Occupational Therapist. She's severely dyslexic, so the university provided her with all sorts of assistance to get through her degree, from scribes in the exams to extra time for tests. She passed, and became a qualified Occupational Therapist. She landed a job in a local hospital. And on day one, was handed a huge pile of paperwork to complete.…

as someone running HireParalegals.com (largest platform for hiring law talent), i can tell you we’re not seeing any slowdown in demand.

Firms are still hiring paralegals in big numbers, even with all the new AI tools around. the reality is ai can draft or summarize, but it doesn’t replace someone who understands procedure, catches nuance, and keeps a case on track. in practice, lawyers lean on paralegals more than ever.

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