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Depression lies

wilwheaton.net

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Re: Depression lies

#191

Post by d0mine »

niels_olson wrote: post #30
ryanmolden wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares if something works through the placebo effect, as long as it works. I can't be bothered to look it up at the moment (on my mobile) but I do believe he is correct in that published studies in well regarded medical journals have purported to show just that (effect == placebo), but as I said, from the perspective of the person being treated, does it matter? I agree if it prevents people from seeking help that…

Yes, actually, it does matter. Side effects of antidepressants include the period of getting just enough energy to kill yourself, and the risk of serotonin syndrome, especially when seeing multiple doctors for multiple issues, who might start SSRIs in near succession. The list goes on for a ways.

The stronger side-effects the more effective placebos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfRVCaA5o18

Re: Depression lies

#192

Post by drumdance »

abruzzi wrote: post #139
drumdance wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best description I've seen of depression-induced suicde is "a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

For someone who has suffered depression for 35 years continuously (almost all my life) and had tried talk therapy, CBT, and over a dozen different drugs ranging from SSRIs like Prozac and Paxil, to Tricyclics like Tofranil. I'd hardly call it temporary. The only meds I haven't tried are MAOIs, but I've been resistant because side effects.

I'm truly sorry to hear this. Have you looked into ketamine? NPR had a story about it in January: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/01/31/146096540/i-wante...

Re: Depression lies

#193

Post by drumdance »

jetti wrote: post #124
drumdance wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best description I've seen of depression-induced suicde is "a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

The thing I always hated about hearing that phrase is that it completely invalidates what the person is feeling and makes the person saying the phrase. In some cases, it truly may be a temporary problem, in some cases it may not be. How can you say something like that to somebody with Fibromyalgia? Surely they would be apt to feel depressed and unlikely to continue wanting to live. While that may not be a common situ…

For certain situations like the one you describe, I agree. But for straight-up depression with no other exacerbating factors (and which responds to treatment), I think the statement still stands. It certainly helped me when I was suicidal.

Re: Depression lies

#194

Post by saraid216 »

drumdance wrote: post #120
jetti wrote: post #105

I'll preface this with the fact that I know that people will see me as being cold or just generally not agree with my opinion but I am going to share it with you all anyways. I have experienced this first hand. I have attempted suicide twice in my life and have gotten help for it. Because of my experience, I think I have come out of it with a different view which is this: Suicide is somebody's choice and theirs only…

The best description I've seen of depression-induced suicde is "a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

Why would you ever want a temporary solution to any problem? It might be an accurate description, but to someone like me, the first reaction is, "Sold!"

Re: Depression lies

#195

Post by davidtanner »

paraschopra wrote: post #72

What I'm not able to reconcile is if the despair and anxiety resulting from nihilism is something that should be treated . I'm a staunch believer in existential nihilism (and hence believe life is inherently purposeless and pointless), so time to time it gives a sharp tinge of sadness on the lines of _why am I existing at all_. It's not a suicidal feeling, but very close to it. I have (rightly, so) convinced myself o…

I used to believe similar things and suffered from depression. I tried to kill myself with a boxcutter.

I offer a suggestion for an antidote for your philosophy:

Carefully read as much of this website as you can: http://csp.org/index.html

Then you will have the knowledge to make an informed choice regarding the use of an entheogenic drug. Good luck!

Re: Depression lies

#196

Post by jjmat »

nisa wrote: post #62

I had and have only mild depression and anxiety from time to time and I may sound ignorant/stupid now but for me starting to read and practice stoic philosophy really helped to keep a calmer and more rational outlook for my life. It does a good job for me to not feel worthless and to keep a good spirit in spite of everything falling apart. The words of epictetus and marcus aurelius made a difference for me. I've also…

I'll add myself as a second data point. Understanding the stoics has helped me as well.

The ancient stoics seem to have stumbled upon important insights into our nature and how to be happy. A good introductory book to stoicism is William Irvine's "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy".

Interestingly the founder of Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, Albert Ellis, "credited Epictetus with providing a foundation for his system of psychotherapy".

Re: Depression lies

#197

Post by carbocation »

lisper wrote: post #176
cromulent wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So depression is not pathological but the idea of depression is pathological? How meta. Your comparison with cancer is odious, as you indicate. The idea of depression may be a cause of depression? Check. The idea of cancer might be a cause of cancer? Ridiculous. The OP may well have helped people with depression (or their friends) recognize or diagnose or de-stigmatize their condition. Your comment? Not so much. The…

> The idea of cancer might be a cause of cancer? Ridiculous. Not ridiculous at all. There are all kinds of plausible mechanisms for the idea of cancer to cause cancer. Here's just one example off the top of my head: stressing out over the possibility of getting cancer can stimulate the production of excess stomach acid, which can lead to acid reflux, which is known to increase the risk of esophageal cancer.

Stress is not a meaningful cause of stomach ulcers.

Re: Depression lies

#198

Post by rdtsc »

jdietrich wrote: post #137

I am rather disappointed by much of the discussion in these comments. The HN community has always taken pride in being careful, analytical and data-led. If someone were to advocate an unproven cancer therapy based on anecdote, they would rightly be harshly criticised. The evidence base for SSRIs is extremely poor. The most favourable metastudies indicate only a very mild benefit, similar to that of many non-drug inte…

> The brain is not merely a passive vessel for the mind and environmental influences can cause substantial structural changes to the brain

I have always thought that. Now I am not a neuroscientist or anything closer to that field, so it is just a hunch. To me, it always seemed odd that such a large community of scientists never questioned that. In other words, there is sort of a tacit assumption that if we see it on fMRI and thi s region is lit up then the brain causes this.

Or say "we noticed this part of the brained is bulging out and that is related to the person being left handled, therefore left-handedness comes from a physiological basis".

In the most elementary discussions of scientific principle the causation vs correlation always comes up as a basic fallacy yet in the case of brain and behavior this view seems rather absent. And I always found that strange.

Re: Depression lies

#199

Post by 1123581321 »

SeanDav wrote: post #181
jdietrich wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be refuting an argument that I haven't made. Firstly, how very presumptuous of you to assume that I haven't suffered from depression. Anecdote is not the singular of data. Whether I have or have not suffered from depression has no bearing whatsoever on my ability to analyse the available data. Having had cancer gives you no insight whatsoever into the biology of cell division. Depression is known to spont…

Have you, personally suffered from depression or are you just making more logical arguments?

I have suffered from depression and agree with jdietrich. I hope that is enough for you to rest the "sex and virgins" argument, which is logically fallacious and makes rational discussion of published information difficult.

Re: Depression lies

#200

Post by moistgorilla »

mnicole wrote: post #187
navs wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask what you switched to after dropping Effexor? My email is listed in my profile if you wish to answer privately.

Quite honestly it scared the shit out of me to the point where I no longer felt safe seeking aid from people who claimed to have answers. At the end of the day, none of the other anti-d's I'd tried (all of the major ones) did anything but take any emotions - negative or positive - away, and that's not how I wanted to live. For years I wasn't on anything, but more recently I tried Wellbutrin to similar results. As suc…

I'm sorry anti-depressants didn't work out for you. Luckily I've only had to try out two different types before finding the one for me. Wellbutrin was my first ad but it made me feel like an emotionless robot. I then got on prozac and rather than make me a robot it made me feel normal. Not exactly happy but definitely not sad. Which is what I was going for anyway. Good luck, also, if you didn't try therapy, i suggest you do.
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