A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom • Hacker News Board

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#261

Post by godelski » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 6:24 AM UTC

glitchc wrote: post #149

monknomo wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the consequences and responsibility fall on different parties. Children inherently cannot have responsibility because they are children. It's a wrong-headed counterargument. I'll agree that people can argue about the answer, but it is perfectly clear to me. I'd also say it's a value-system driven argument which I see as different than a belief driven argument

Beliefs separate from values.. that's a strange dichotomy. Do you harbour beliefs that conflict with your values?

  > Do you harbour beliefs that conflict with your values?

I'm not sure how long you've been human for, but this is in fact a common thing. Common for all living creatures really. Unfortunately we cannot always uphold the full idealized versions of our beliefs due to constraints of the world we live in. But on the other hand, if your beliefs weren't beyond our capabilities then we'd never improve.

(I'll assume it is "not very long")

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#262

Post by malloryerik » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 6:26 AM UTC

djoldman wrote: post #146

Unfortunately, this kind of story will continue to be a popular one in newspapers and magazines, garnering lots of clicks. It feeds into the "everything is different now" sort of desperate helplessness people seem primed to adopt with respect to AI sometimes. Obviously the answer to testing and grading is to do it in the classroom. If a computer is required, it can't connect to the internet. Caught with a cellphone,…

Instead of extending hours in classrooms, which might feel like torture, what about no-tech libraries for individual work like homework? Or with a coffeeshop vibe. I'd personally say four hours a day but I'm guessing two might be what many found reasonable. If you finished your work early you could read what you'd like. Town and city libraries could be enlisted for this along with the school libraries, which might need to be expanded to fit all of these kids. Add sports and you get a serious full day for kids, not the kind of half day they have now in the U.S. That additionally lightens the load on working parents.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#263

Post by Lerc » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 6:29 AM UTC

So I am going to be critical of how this piece is being presented. I'd like to start that by saying it is well written by an obviously talented person who will do well in life. I'm prefacing my comments with this because I really don't want my comments to be considered disrespectful or antagonistic. I just don't think this can be considered a representative view from 'A High Schooler'

I don't think this is necessarily wrong, but over the years I have seen many high achieving senior students writing about or being interviewed about topics where they are less representing the community they are a member of, but the opinions that supports those who give them praise, support, and opportunities.

I don't think it should reflect poorly on a student that does that, but I also don't think you can draw significant conclusions from their stated opinions. Most people like this have not yet found their own voice, what you hear is often the voice that they think they are supposed to have. For many, tertiary education is as much about finding that voice as it is studying specific fields

Measuring what is best for students is an incredibly complex task, not least because 'best' can mean different things to different people, and often the wellbeing of the student is not considered high enough. There is science here, but given the importance of the field, way less than there should be. Changing education for the better is extremely difficult when the science conflicts with public opinion. There are forces at play that know that their only path to success is through swaying public opinion because the science is against them. The science of education can be laborious, slow, and full of difficult to express nuance. It is also the only sure process by which we can find out what actually works.

So by all means follow the argument that it makes, but don't mistake the source as being representative. The author expresses their love for debating and development. I imagine that they would respect the sentiment that the work should stand on what was said, rather than who said it.

[as a final thought]

It would actually be an interesting research project to find articles like this written on contentious issues over the years and locating the writers to get their opinions on them with the benefit of hindsight.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#264

Post by Swizec » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 6:37 AM UTC

godelski wrote: post #252

AppleBananaPie wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised the answer of doing all exercises (including essay writing) in class is apparently not obvious. High school me was a moron and should not be trusted to do the real work and people who know better should force him to practice the skills lol Once he's grown and has a job he will one day realize and be thankful for the teachers that forced him to do the work. Obviously not true for all students but I don't…

> I'm surprised the answer of doing all exercises (including essay writing) in class is apparently not obvious. Because that results in less education time. If you do homework in class then you have to give up lecture time. Of course, the other option is to extend school time. Here's a good litmus test: if something seems very obvious, you're likely missing some hidden complexity. It's not a perfect test, but if it's…

> Because that results in less education time. If you do homework in class then you have to give up lecture time.

Homework is the real education time. The lecture is less than half the ingredients. You can't learn without engaging with the material. The best lectures follow a question-trytoanswer-getrightanswer pattern where students are basically doing homework as part of the lecture.

We wrote all graded essays during class. It was great. Nice and timeboxed. When you're done you're done. Also forces you to keep it short enough that the teacher doesn't drown in stuff to grade because how much can you really write by hand in 2 hours?

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#265

Post by RobertEva » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 6:46 AM UTC

Two things can be true: keep phones/AI out during class, and admit they exist at home. A workable pattern: handwritten in-class checks; take-home projects with an artifact trail (sources, drafts, prompts); a 5-minute oral defense. AI becomes something to critique, not a crutch.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#266

Post by lmm » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 7:01 AM UTC

jeremyjh wrote: post #244

kmote00 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about this idea: flip the script. Students must learn the subject OUTside of class: teacher provides video lectures for those that want to use them, but any source is open game -- YouTube, AI, you name it. Then class time is reserved exclusively for doing the assignments. No phones or computers allowed.

So teachers are...proctors? No reason to have every teacher recording their own lectures. One teacher per grade per district? Per state? Outsourced to the lowest bidder who generates it with AI?

There is far more value in skilled individual attention at the doing exercises stage - helping where people are stuck, figuring out which parts need revision - than at the lecture stage. Think about how college seminars work - you do the reading on your own, the learning happens when you're digging into it in a group setting.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#267

Post by lmm » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 7:04 AM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #222

kjkjadksj wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no organizational barrier. Parent can still call the school and say jimmys dad is in the hospital or whatever.

And, it allows parents and students to completely ignore making plans. Jimmy needs a ride home from football practice? That should be (a) expected and (b) planned for in advance. He should not have to text mom to come and pick him up. He wants to go home with Tommy instead? Well too bad, that wasn't the plan.

Thanks for saying the quiet part out loud. Phone bans have never been about improving education, they're just adults seizing a chance to make children's lives more miserable.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#268

Post by sethammons » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 7:04 AM UTC

warkdarrior wrote: post #99

pavel_lishin wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly hope that doctors, civil engineers & researchers aren't doing too much delegating in college.

They'll soon be replaced by chatbots, for better or for worse.

"It says here, your shit's fucked up." --Doctor reading what the computer says in Idiocracy

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#269

Post by lmm » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 7:04 AM UTC

godelski wrote: post #250

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither? it's quite clear they're suggesting improving assessments. This will lead to upstream learning not being gamed.

So the option is to what, stop handing out homework? That would result in less education time. To clarify, I mean education time, not classroom time.

Homework has never been shown to improve education. It gets given out because parents demand it.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#270

Post by sethammons » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 7:27 AM UTC

HDThoreaun wrote: post #74

AIorNot wrote: post #42

I’m an AI engineer but I think schools need a nuclear option Banish tech in schools (including cell phones) (except during comp classes) but allow it at home Ie in high school only allow paper and pencil/pen Go back to written exams (handwriting based) Be lenient on spelling and grammer Allow homework, digital tutoring AI assistants and AI only when it not primary- ie for homework not in class work Bring back oral ex…

> Bring back oral exams With 30 kids in a class Im not sure this is possible. Oral exams scale horribly

My best experience for book reports was by oral exam in high school with a class of about 30.

Everyone has independent work and one by one you are called to the teacher's desk. He would take your book, open it up to a "random" spot and read a couple of sentences and then ask about what is going on in that scene. Hard to bull shit.

This could be modified to be like parent:teacher conferences where appointment slots exist while everyone else is doing something else (lunch, another class, maybe scheduled after hours)