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A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

theatlantic.com

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Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#201

Post by kjkjadksj »

Terr_ wrote: post #198
Telemakhos wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No phones" was the rule back in the 2000s, when phones were flip phones or pagers for drug deals. Then helicopter parents demanded to be able to contact their children at any time, including during classes, so phones were allowed. There was the added bonus of "What if there's a shooting? I need to be able to call my kid during a shooting!" Now, phones are not allowed again. The takeaway is that phones should never h…

Right: If parents needed to contact students during class--or vice-versa--there was never[0] any technical barrier to that! You don't need hundreds of distraction/cheating pocket computers in a giant invisible wireless network for that , a school could easily route the information if the organization chose to do so . The technology was used as an end-run around an organizational barrier.

There is no organizational barrier. Parent can still call the school and say jimmys dad is in the hospital or whatever.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#202

Post by causal »

mrob wrote: post #134
zdragnar wrote: post #5

I recently found out that my nephew's school had no take-home homework before high school, instead having kids complete assignments during class time. At first, I was flabbergasted that they would deny kids the discipline building of managing unstructured time without direct supervision. Homework- at home- seemed like such a fundamental part of the schooling experience. Now, I'm thinking that was pretty much they onl…

Homework only works as discipline building for people who don't need the help anyway. For normal students all it builds is resentment.

And robs children of family and play time. Play is critical work for the child mind.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#204

Post by ethbr1 »

kevinventullo wrote: post #182
ethbr1 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No phones in class, at scale and enforced, feels like a last 5 years thing in K-12. And the trend was very much towards increased digital testing, pre-LLM. This is pivoting back to paper-based, but it's going to be as messy and slow of a transition as the no-mobile-device one was. Especially given how much money there is in "AI". And hamfistedly-handed, will likely leave another generation fucked over with regards to…

I attended high school in the US in the early 00’s and cell phones were absolutely banned from classrooms. You could keep them in your locker and use them between classes, but that was it. I attended college in the late 00’s, and I don’t think I took a single digital exam. Quizzes, sure, but for final exams even CS was pencil and paper (or a final project, which admittedly will have issues in the post-LLM era).

They were technically banned in my school in the 00s as well, but it wasn't enforced. Teachers often have bigger concerns than quiet kids.

I'd love for someone from the 10s to chime in, as that seemed the heyday of unchecked social media use.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#205

Post by dehrmann »

makeitdouble wrote: post #177
greenspam wrote: post #174

Imagine back in the days when calculators were just invented. An 8 year old kid might have the similar complain: “my classmate finished a 4 digits number multiplication problem in 5 seconds which generally took 1mins.” People might say, in the long term, the kid who cheated would be less proficient in arithmetic, which turned out to be true. But when you think about it, it seems not the end of the world when most hig…

To my knowledge, even before HP-48 level calculators came in the classroom nobody cared about arithmetic past middle school. The core of the teaching was proofs and a lot more theory, and that went on into CS for me. I'd compare it to the ability to write and run basic assembly. We did it, and got checked on it, but that was not what we were there for.

At the same time, I remember most of high school math barely needing calculators outside chemistry and physics.

Look at some of the SAT math questions:

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/digital-sat-samp...

The questions are all designed to have a tidy, closed-form answer. A calculator is either marginally helpful or outright cheating.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#206

Post by hamish-b »

I've been working hard at this problem over at https://kurnell.ai. Our thesis is that going forward it's unrealistic to ban or detect-and-reprimand AI, therefore we need to meet students where they're at and democratize access to the best AI for all.

We have great traction with universities in USA and Australia. The flywheel that we've constructed means that students are being prepared for industry + research in a Post-AI world, and professors can see exactly how students are using AI tooling. Our findings are that knowledge of how students are using AI goes a long way to helping institutions adapt.

Keen to chat and share our findings - reach out at hamish(at)kurnell.ai !

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#207

Post by Balgair »

AIorNot wrote: post #84
Balgair wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My SO was a TA in college, so I can echo this. You'd get a stack of 120 blue books to grade in a week's time a few times a quarter. The grading was entirely just checking if the student used a set of key words and had a certain length. This was a near universal method across the University for blue book exams. Honestly, an LLM would be a better grader than most stressed out grad students. Everyone has been phoning it…

No issues to me in using LLM for suggestive grading assuming we have some evidence on its grading rubric and paper trail to audit for appeals to human review - ie human teacher is responsible not LLM

Any audits will be quickly farmed out to yet another AI for review, is my guess.

I'd imagine some system like YTs appeals system, where everyone is maximally unhappy.

One anecdote from my SO's time as a grader was that pre med students were the worst. They would just wear you down to get the best possible grade, appealing literally every missed point ad nauseum. Most profs would give in eventually in the undergrad classes and not deal with them. Of course further emboldening them.

No other major was like that, only those dealing with the future hellscape that was US healthcare.

I'd imagine that, yes, eventually your appeals in the AI future will end up at a prof, but delayed to hell and back. Even paying $200k+ won't matter.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#208

Post by piperswe »

ethbr1 wrote: post #204
kevinventullo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I attended high school in the US in the early 00’s and cell phones were absolutely banned from classrooms. You could keep them in your locker and use them between classes, but that was it. I attended college in the late 00’s, and I don’t think I took a single digital exam. Quizzes, sure, but for final exams even CS was pencil and paper (or a final project, which admittedly will have issues in the post-LLM era).

They were technically banned in my school in the 00s as well, but it wasn't enforced. Teachers often have bigger concerns than quiet kids. I'd love for someone from the 10s to chime in, as that seemed the heyday of unchecked social media use.

I was in high school in the late 2010s. No cell phones allowed during most of class time, and it was somewhat enforced. I definitely recall students being chewed out for having their phones out in class, but I also recall some students having their phones out with no repercussions.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#209

Post by bdangubic »

GuinansEyebrows wrote: post #127
textadventure wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ANY real kid that is unpretentious would do. A "I use AI to cheat at school" article would be far more interesting that this "Oh my God, my peers are hopeless but not me" piece.

are those kids writing articles? because i would read them if they were.

they get “AI” to write the articles for them ;)

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#210

Post by OutOfHere »

GuinansEyebrows wrote: post #186
OutOfHere wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are in effect asserting that the quality of the instruction offered in class is considered pretty good, that is a failed assertion right from the get go. AI helps the student to make up for common failures in the quality of education.

you're operating from two assumptions that are not universally true, and the second only hypothetically addresses a symptom of the first but not the cause.

It is not the student's business to fix the education system. It is the student's business to use all available resources of any kind.
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