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Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

henrikkarlsson.xyz

141–150 of 238 posts

Re: Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is limit to the "power" of concentration and what things it can help achieve. If meditation could help unravel the secrets of the universe, it would have helped the meditator reveal that the hardware responsible for consciousness is actually composed of neurons. All meditation might help is to remove the fog from the hall of mirror that is consciousness. To know more about the universe, one has to experiment on…

or maybe it would reveal to the meditator that consciousness is nonlocal and what we perceive as our self is an illusion created by the systems of symbols and language which overlays our perception and through which existence filters and there is no self there is no other there is one whole and it is all conscious

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Re: Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lack the endogenous mechanisms It's not a lack of mechanisms. It's buggy wiring in the brain where at some point in time t some substance or lack thereof forced the brain to reroute blood flow through "paths" that were less impacted by the bug. if you can increase the blood flow through the originally responsible paths, you can recover any buried mechanism. people with ADHD and stuff who had only slightly lower blo…

> It's not a lack of mechanisms. It's buggy wiring in the brain where at some point in time t some substance or lack thereof forced the brain to reroute blood flow through "paths" that were less impacted by the bug. I don't think there is any solid basis to say this. There has been at least one study that linked greater differences between right and left prefrontal cortex blood flow, favoring the right, to greater AD…

awesome, thanks.

> I don't think there is any solid basis to say this.

The history of eugenic programs as well the blocking of male/female sex hormones to inhibit sexual development or for transitional purposes should reveal a solid basis. Brain/body are capable of recovering close to a genetic baseline, at least up to some age.

> developmental signals have widespread cascades of impact throughout the body.

I read too little about that in edge cases, but in brains and bodies that developed normally, these changes are ever so slight that, as is commonly known, radically changing diets and lifestyle can recover the genetic baseline. Physical and psychological manifestations and changes are bio-chemistry and neuro-chemistry, and I do mean the one-to-one match as much as the correlates.

Bad posture ruins the kinetic chain as much as it impedes systemic metabolic logistics (blood circulation, lymphatic transport, ...). And if it happens too early and goes on for too long, the developmental differences to the genetic baseline become pervasive.

But bad posture isn't ADHD or anxiety or temporal lobe epilepsy, for example, for which people with ADHD have a higher susceptibility for, all due to Neuroplasticity aka neural adaptation.

But the intensity of any phenomenon depends to at least some more than "just barely" (3-5%) relevant degree on lifestyle and the psycho-social environment. Psychological traits are more nurture-dependent than physical traits but physical traits (can) have a massive influence on psychology, a lot of which can be attributed to how the environment perceives qualities and behaviors. For people with different sub-types of ADHD, this can either mean worlds-apart to their genetic baseline or just slightly off enough to be a tad bit bitter.

This was a lot but here's what I'm getting at:

> Seems unlikely that any decrease anywhere, even with increases elsewhere, post-development, would be uniformly helpful.

Any increase towards baseline is beneficial throughout the entire affected graph of neural structures, as well as proximate ones.

I assume there are fMRI studies on specific cognitive performance during ischemia and post-ischemia. Their findings should confirm that recovery from damage due to long-term hypodensity and decreased perfusion but that is also quite normal as any recovery from injury comes with a restoration of functionality.

The reason I am mentioning ischemia specifically is that brains don't stop working just because some part suffers from a reduction in blood flow. But ischemia can last for a very long time, especially if undiagnosed.

Developmental signals and ischemia are, of course, two entirely different things but the connection I see is the part where the brain reroutes neural signals simply because it's an innate mechanism, not an adaptive response. [citation needed, but I believe I read something about earlier this year. I am not uncertain.]

While ADHD is "a genetic thing", it can also be the consequence of lifestyle and "psycho-social" environment aka nurture, without any part of the essential genetic component. But the intensity or severity of positive and or negative ADHD symptoms is mostly the result of lifestyle and nurture, for which the impact(s) of drugs, diet and environment are proof.

So while it's absolutely true, that

> developmental signals have widespread cascades of impact throughout the body,

there is definitely

> functional-physical causation,

that is significant.

Re: Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lack the endogenous mechanisms It's not a lack of mechanisms. It's buggy wiring in the brain where at some point in time t some substance or lack thereof forced the brain to reroute blood flow through "paths" that were less impacted by the bug. if you can increase the blood flow through the originally responsible paths, you can recover any buried mechanism. people with ADHD and stuff who had only slightly lower blo…

My symptoms didn’t improve that much when I was an endurance athlete. Most of the improvements could be adequately explained by the hedonic treadmill. I could suffer longer.

But you did not suffer from a reduction to your genetic baseline.

You went up from your baseline.

> Most of the improvements could be adequately explained by the hedonic treadmill. I could suffer longer.

That's chemistry in body and brain. There were changes.

Re: Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

#144
post #52
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a strong claim, and I've never heard of it before. Can you provide sources?

The only part of this that rhymed with something I'm aware of is growth in the PFC in practicing meditators and a relation to improvement of ADHD symptoms among other things, though I don't recall whether it was a good study or not. I think I read that more than a decade ago.

That's changes in brain chemistry via lifestyle changes.

Meditation, if practiced at least adequately intense, creates a time interval that is entirely different to anything an ADHD mind is accustomed to. Meditation is not a dream, not the Default Mode Network under control. You are awake, "lucid", not rooted in your imagination or some other cognitive style/process resulting from "hyperlight association" or similar common phenomena.

Re: Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

#145
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lack the endogenous mechanisms It's not a lack of mechanisms. It's buggy wiring in the brain where at some point in time t some substance or lack thereof forced the brain to reroute blood flow through "paths" that were less impacted by the bug. if you can increase the blood flow through the originally responsible paths, you can recover any buried mechanism. people with ADHD and stuff who had only slightly lower blo…

This seems like a strong claim, and I've never heard of it before. Can you provide sources?

I'm sorry that I don't have the time to look further. But tangential sources could be

fMRI studies in general but definitely those related to cognitive performance during and after recovery from ischemia.

Also: studies on sexual development, the inhibition of sex hormone metabolisms.

And I'm quite certain that some of Michael Levin's research could provide some bits, too. But I am not sure what keywords I would start with.

Re: Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

#146

I wonder if this explains the popularity of It's a Wonderful Life . The story is well-known at this point. It was a box-office flop when first released, and fell out of copyright because the studio couldn't be bothered to renew it. As a result it played repeatedly on TV around Christmastime every year. The repeated exposure to this film, presumably also associating it with other pleasant holiday memories for audience…

Huh, I would guess there's a different mechanism at work. In my experience, movies playing on TV during the holidays tend not to get people's deep, persistent, undivided attention.

Re: Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Shawshank Redemption has a similar story. Didn't do well when released. Its video release fared a little better, maybe because people could re-watch it at home. Then Turner picked up TV distribution rights cheaply and showed it again and again. Now, just like It's a Wonderful Life , it's considered one of the best movies ever made. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shawshank_Redemption#Criti... Groundhog Day is l…

It's funny - I watched the Shawshank Redemption for the first time a couple years ago, after hearing forever about what a great film it is, and thought it was so lackluster I wasn't sure if I was missing something. "Did he die in the end? Was it a dream sequence?" But no, both the intention of the creators, and by far the most common interpretation from viewers, is that it's all literal. I tried watching Groundhog Da…

> perhaps it's the repeat viewings and predictability that make these films comfort food.

There's a simpler explanation, which is that different people like different things.

Re: Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason why it was on 24 hours a day for 20 years is that something got fucked up with the copyright and TV channels were using it as free filler. When I was very young it merely competed with Miracle on 34th Street. And then it was just fucking everywhere. I’m not sure I’m entirely over hating it for never being off the air. Even though it’s been 15-20 years since they stopped playing it every hour of the…

The Shawshank Redemption has a similar story. Didn't do well when released. Its video release fared a little better, maybe because people could re-watch it at home. Then Turner picked up TV distribution rights cheaply and showed it again and again. Now, just like It's a Wonderful Life , it's considered one of the best movies ever made. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shawshank_Redemption#Criti... Groundhog Day is l…

You cannot attribute their success simply to repeated TV runs though. Some films are just not that appealing for the cinema, more art than entertainment, and slowly convert each viewer into a fan until it joins the collective consciousness as a classic. It's a story that all of these have in common - some level of critical acclaim before release, flops at the cinemas, slowly builds up a reputation.

Re: Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

#149
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We, as humans, have the ability to collapse (hint hint, quantum physics) from the ethereal to the physical world the thoughts we have. Do thoughts exist in an ethereal world, or are they just arrangements of chemicals and charges in the brain? I've never seen "ether," and nobody's ever found a structure in the human body that interfaces with it. There are no structures causally implicated in quantum wave function c…

Appreciate your perspective friend. Correct me if I'm wrong or mischaracterizing, but it feels like you're looking for something concrete or absolute in what I'm saying. In my experience the only thing that feels "absolute" is that nothing is absolute. The words I'm using are the best I currently have to describe ideas that have always existed. It's not like a new messiah or philosopher came about with this novelty.…

> there's a deeper mechanism that we're unaware of or aren't ready to know yet

Sure, subconsciousness. No need to invent the whole extra magical worlds.

Re: Almost anything you give sustained attention to will begin to loop on itself

#150
I don't know about this. Paying attention to how your anxiety feels is a powerful way of noticing that it is just an experience like all other experience and there is a great freedom in realizing that you are not the anxiety, you are merely experiencing anxiety.

I don't think I've ever gotten a panic attack from paying attention to anxiety.

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