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"Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

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Re: "Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

#11

Post by enmaku »

stephengillie wrote: post #3

This is more an exercise in how conditions as described in the DSM IV can be applied to almost anyone as easily as a horoscope or fortune cookie. A psychology prof once told us that the DSM isn't a diagnostic manual or any sort of medical text -- it's just a reference book so the insurance industry knows how to bill psychological conditions.

Funny that the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" isn't considered a "Diagnostic Manual" given that a) those words are in the title and b) it's commonly and constantly used by professionals as a manual for diagnosis. It doesn't really matter what your one prof said, it matters how the profession as a whole uses it. I also cited the ICD-10 in the article for several of the disorders, and there absolutely is not any arguing that the ICD-10 is a valid diagnostic tool.

Also, while I agree the mis-dignosis is common and many of the elements read like a horoscope/fortune cookie, you can't say that Nite Owl II was a narcissist or that Ozymandius had avoidant personality disorder.

Re: "Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

#12

Post by enmaku »

benihana wrote: post #6

> While it's great to understand the psychology behind the characters, this knowledge doesn't really make the movie or knowledge that much better. Disagree with this so much. Knowing the depth and psychology of the characters is what makes the Watchman so much more interesting than say Superman or even my favorite superhero, Batman. Watchmen is very open and honest about the fact that people who would do this are pro…

Point taken. That last bit was just my personal opinion - I'd rather enjoy the suspension of disbelief than analyze every action in-depth, but that's just me. If this article gave you greater enjoyment of the movie then that makes me a very happy camper.

Re: "Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

#13

Post by johnchristopher »

benihana wrote: post #6

> While it's great to understand the psychology behind the characters, this knowledge doesn't really make the movie or knowledge that much better. Disagree with this so much. Knowing the depth and psychology of the characters is what makes the Watchman so much more interesting than say Superman or even my favorite superhero, Batman. Watchmen is very open and honest about the fact that people who would do this are pro…

To me, the whole point of the movie is: "The end doesn't justify the means and when someones tells you so it certainly means you are heading for fascism".

Characters are "interesting" in the "comic book/fantasy storyline" but not realistic. There's not much to gain from analyzing them other than the stereotypes they stand for.

Nothing new under the sun, literary-wise.

Re: "Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

#14

Post by Palomides »

lukev wrote: post #4

So this is something I've always wondered about diagnosing mental disorders. The thing is, how strongly do the traits listed have to be manifested before it's considered a disorder as opposed to just being that person's personality? In the comic book, these distinct personalities are what make the characters interesting. The same is also true of people in real life; if you take away every trait mentioned, you end up…

it's a mental disorder when it's preventing a healthy lifestyle

Re: "Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

#15

Post by MartinCron »

kelvin0 wrote: post #2

Wow! I really enjoyed the movie, but this analysis by the author and the seemingly cohesive picture he paints of each of the 'heroes' is quite astounding ...

You know that asshole guy who always chimes in uninvited and says that the book is better... I don't want to be that guy.

But I will say that it's absolutely worth reading if you enjoyed the movie at all, though I think the movie has a stronger ending than the original.

Re: "Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

#16

Post by enmaku »

MartinCron wrote: post #15
kelvin0 wrote: post #2

Wow! I really enjoyed the movie, but this analysis by the author and the seemingly cohesive picture he paints of each of the 'heroes' is quite astounding ...

You know that asshole guy who always chimes in uninvited and says that the book is better... I don't want to be that guy. But I will say that it's absolutely worth reading if you enjoyed the movie at all, though I think the movie has a stronger ending than the original.

I actually liked the original squid ending better, but that's another one of those personal opinions that some asshole guy always has to chime in with. There were definitely some good differences that made each a unique and worthwhile experience, but I would say that the differences more or less left the mental disorders untouched.

Re: "Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

#17

Post by wisty »

Palomides wrote: post #14
lukev wrote: post #4

So this is something I've always wondered about diagnosing mental disorders. The thing is, how strongly do the traits listed have to be manifested before it's considered a disorder as opposed to just being that person's personality? In the comic book, these distinct personalities are what make the characters interesting. The same is also true of people in real life; if you take away every trait mentioned, you end up…

it's a mental disorder when it's preventing a healthy lifestyle

Arguably, it's a mental disorder when it's preventing a normal lifestyle. Normal lifestyles are rarely healthy. But you can't really say someone is abnormal unless it's causing them to lead an abnormally unhealthy lifestyle.

Re: "Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

#18

Post by rprospero »

lukev wrote: post #4

So this is something I've always wondered about diagnosing mental disorders. The thing is, how strongly do the traits listed have to be manifested before it's considered a disorder as opposed to just being that person's personality? In the comic book, these distinct personalities are what make the characters interesting. The same is also true of people in real life; if you take away every trait mentioned, you end up…

I think the qualitative difference is when the personality traits interfere with basic living.

To put it differently, everyone is producing brain cells. Some people are producing more brain cells. However, when they're producing so many brain cells that the brain stops functioning properly, we start calling it a tumor.

In the same way, everyone gets nervous and anxious from time to time. As a personality trait, I'm more high strung than most people. The fact that I don't like roller coasters and crowds due to that reason is just a personality trait. The fact that I once lost necessary medication because I was too nervous to speak with the cashier at the drug store made it a disorder.

Re: "Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

#19

Post by anamax »

johnchristopher wrote: post #13
benihana wrote: post #6

> While it's great to understand the psychology behind the characters, this knowledge doesn't really make the movie or knowledge that much better. Disagree with this so much. Knowing the depth and psychology of the characters is what makes the Watchman so much more interesting than say Superman or even my favorite superhero, Batman. Watchmen is very open and honest about the fact that people who would do this are pro…

To me, the whole point of the movie is: "The end doesn't justify the means and when someones tells you so it certainly means you are heading for fascism". Characters are "interesting" in the "comic book/fantasy storyline" but not realistic. There's not much to gain from analyzing them other than the stereotypes they stand for. Nothing new under the sun, literary-wise.

> The end doesn't justify the means

If the ends don't justify the means, what does?

The problem is actually on the other side. The means produce the end. Not intentions, not the morals of the persons involved, but the means. Fascism, for example, is the result of fascist acts, no matter who does them or their reasons for doing so.

That fact seems to be lost on "good people".

Re: "Watchmen" As a Primer on Mental Disorder

#20

Post by tankbot »

lukev wrote: post #4

So this is something I've always wondered about diagnosing mental disorders. The thing is, how strongly do the traits listed have to be manifested before it's considered a disorder as opposed to just being that person's personality? In the comic book, these distinct personalities are what make the characters interesting. The same is also true of people in real life; if you take away every trait mentioned, you end up…

> So is it simply a matter of degree, and the "disorder" label just gets applied when the traits get strong enough for others to comment on?

Yes, it is the degree to which traits manifest, but it's not simply a matter of others commenting on them. Typically the degree to which these disorders manifest needs to interfere with living a normal, productive life. That can mean something different to different people, but it's safe to say that if your narcissistic rage prevents you from getting/keeping a job, that your case is likely a certifiable disorder.

The trouble with personality disorders (which are pretty interesting, btw) is that if you ask 10 mental health professionals you will probably get at least 8 differing opinions (these numbers are fabricated on the spot, the point is that there is a lot of variation). Combined with the fact that personality disorders are largely untreatable the whole thing becomes a spaghetti mess.

Studying personality disorders is really interesting and can offer a lot of insight into normal social interactions but I would caution people about second-year syndrome [0]. Keep in mind that, as someone else pointed out, these disorders are extreme cases of normal behavior. Don't get all freaked out when reading about mental disorders because you think you exhibit signs of schizophrenia, histrionic or narcissistic disorders. You do, we all do, it's normal - just not in the extremes that those with actual disorders exhibit.

Disclaimer: I am not a mental health professional, though I do work with them and their clients daily. I also minored in Psychology, which is valuable for a C.S. major when it comes to social interaction or marketing your skills/ideas internally.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_students_disease

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