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Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

nationalobserver.com

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Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#81

Post by triceratops »

throw9394494i88 wrote: post #26
mullingitover wrote: post #7

Meanwhile China is on track to install as much solar power in the past year as the US has in its entire history . The US has maintained steep tariffs on solar panels. Clean energy isn't even some virtuous thing, it's just no-brainer smart energy policy. The only reason for Google to be backpedaling on its pledge is political. It's in a backsliding petrostate and it has to play the political game.

Importing solar panels from China is a security risk. Like when Europe depended on Russian gas... Edit: US has no competitive way to manufacture panels, and with cheap imports, it never develops such industry!

> with cheap imports, it never develops such industry!

Unless war compels it. But there's no Nordstream of solar panels that can be shut down in the meanwhile.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#82

Post by thrance »

mullingitover wrote: post #51
yieldcrv wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US has maintained steep tariffs on solar panels. Because the US should be doing it domestically, just like China is. The incentive to do is partially based on tariffs, but the incentive hasn't spurred the private sector and supply chain maintainers into action, and a more comprehensive strategy would need to be done. There is no consensus for further subsidies from the national government to spur this productio…

The argument for tariffs on China's panels is that they're dumping. However, really the answer to dumping is to exploit the dumper viciously, buy as much below market rate product of theirs as you can while they bleed money (especially a capital good like solar panels). The US could be driving down the cost of energy nationwide with the dumped power generation equipment. Lower cost energy could then be turbocharging…

> at the cost of all potential future industries.

And at the cost of the future, period. Climate change promises to be extremely onerous to future generations, from a purely economical POV.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#83

Post by tjwebbnorfolk »

downrightmike wrote: post #63
gjm11 wrote: post #19

I think there's less to this than meets the eye. Previously, on https://sustainability.google/operating-sustainably/ : "We've set a goal to achieve net-zero emissions across all of our operations and value chain by 2030." and, in a table later, "Reduce 50% of our combined Scope 1, 2 (market-based), and 3 absolute emissions by 2030. Invest in nature-based and technology-based carbon removal solutions to neutralize our…

They should just pave the mojave with solar panels. Nearly no one lives there and no one wants to live there and it is dead center to western states. If China can pave mountains, a little desert with caliche should be easy

As a rule, if you're tempted to begin any sentence with "they should just..." -- don't.

Electrical signal attenuation increases with the square of the distance, so you'll lose ~95% of the power to heat loss in the wires if you try to power Seattle from solar in Nevada -- not very eco-friendly, you'd agree? Also the extreme heat destroys solar panels. Also, dust. Also the permitting of stuff across state lines is so time-consuming it's effectively illegal.

There are a lot of very good reasons why we haven't covered the desert in solar panels.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#85

Post by Rebelgecko »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #83
downrightmike wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should just pave the mojave with solar panels. Nearly no one lives there and no one wants to live there and it is dead center to western states. If China can pave mountains, a little desert with caliche should be easy

As a rule, if you're tempted to begin any sentence with "they should just..." -- don't. Electrical signal attenuation increases with the square of the distance, so you'll lose ~95% of the power to heat loss in the wires if you try to power Seattle from solar in Nevada -- not very eco-friendly, you'd agree? Also the extreme heat destroys solar panels. Also, dust. Also the permitting of stuff across state lines is so t…

Seattle is fine on power, you can pave the parts of the Mojave in California to power California instead (although tbh I think what we need most in CA is storage for when the sun goes down).

I think you can also reduce heat loss by cranking the voltage up, right? I imagine that's how current interstate/cross-country power deals work

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#86

Post by amanaplanacanal »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #83
downrightmike wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should just pave the mojave with solar panels. Nearly no one lives there and no one wants to live there and it is dead center to western states. If China can pave mountains, a little desert with caliche should be easy

As a rule, if you're tempted to begin any sentence with "they should just..." -- don't. Electrical signal attenuation increases with the square of the distance, so you'll lose ~95% of the power to heat loss in the wires if you try to power Seattle from solar in Nevada -- not very eco-friendly, you'd agree? Also the extreme heat destroys solar panels. Also, dust. Also the permitting of stuff across state lines is so t…

Seattle isn't a good example, as they have been carbon neutral since 2005. They have lots of hydro power in the Pacific Northwest.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#87

Post by dwedge »

downrightmike wrote: post #63
gjm11 wrote: post #19

I think there's less to this than meets the eye. Previously, on https://sustainability.google/operating-sustainably/ : "We've set a goal to achieve net-zero emissions across all of our operations and value chain by 2030." and, in a table later, "Reduce 50% of our combined Scope 1, 2 (market-based), and 3 absolute emissions by 2030. Invest in nature-based and technology-based carbon removal solutions to neutralize our…

They should just pave the mojave with solar panels. Nearly no one lives there and no one wants to live there and it is dead center to western states. If China can pave mountains, a little desert with caliche should be easy

Paving deserts with black heat absorbers that are only 10-20% efficient in converting that energy to electricity could well end up affecting climate more than burning coal would

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#88

Post by ackfoobar »

nathan_compton wrote: post #62
_mlbt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a large nation the size of the former Soviet Union or China should be enough to invalidate communism and centrally planned economies if that’s what you’re suggesting.

I guess ask a Chinese person? Like I'm sure many Chinese people aren't happy about the way their state functions, but the vast majority of them live their lives pretty much like we do. I don't know if I would take that as a total invalidation of whatever it is they have over there. Would I prefer a western style system? Definitely, but I'm not sure its so easy to point at China and say "this is an abject failure." In…

The poverty reduction comes from the Chinese "Communist" Party adopting capitalism.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#89

Post by amanaplanacanal »

yieldcrv wrote: post #48
mullingitover wrote: post #7

Meanwhile China is on track to install as much solar power in the past year as the US has in its entire history . The US has maintained steep tariffs on solar panels. Clean energy isn't even some virtuous thing, it's just no-brainer smart energy policy. The only reason for Google to be backpedaling on its pledge is political. It's in a backsliding petrostate and it has to play the political game.

> The US has maintained steep tariffs on solar panels. Because the US should be doing it domestically, just like China is. The incentive to do is partially based on tariffs, but the incentive hasn't spurred the private sector and supply chain maintainers into action, and a more comprehensive strategy would need to be done. There is no consensus for further subsidies from the national government to spur this productio…

If China wants to subsidize solar panels for me, I'm all for it.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#90

Post by HardCodedBias »

Filligree wrote: post #27
dfxm12 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there evidence that they are doing this to appease Trump? What if they wanted to do this anyway and recognize that at this time, they can use appeasement as a weaselly way to justify it.

Who would want to? Solar power is cheaper than any alternative, so long as you’re allowed to use it.

Solar power is much more expensive if the power must adhere to some number of 9's of reliability.

Often data centers need to run at three nines of availability (ie: 99.9) and at that level of availability the price of solar power is many multiples of conventional power due to the cost of batteries and over provisioning.

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