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Minesweeper thermodynamics

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41–50 of 65 posts

Re: Minesweeper thermodynamics

#41
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bot at https://mrgris.com/projects/minesweepr/ does these calculations, and has a winrate of 37.8% on expert. I don't know what a more naive bot would achieve.

Is this better compared to an actual expert human?

I think the human experts mostly care about speed rather than their average solve percentage. If they're forced to guess then they can just restart if they get it wrong.

Re: Minesweeper thermodynamics

#43

I hacked up a version of minesweeper that was “forgiving:” if there was no selection that was provably safe, it gave you a safe move. If you picked any square that was not provably a bomb, it would not be a bomb. Typically, as long as you don’t select a number of bombs equal to the number of squares , your first move is safe. I just extended that for the whole game. If you select N-1 bombs, you always win on the firs…

Every version of Minesweeper I've ever played makes your first move safe. I realize this is not going as far as your version, but I've had this argument with ardent players who insist it isn't true (and somehow they've just been lucky, I guess).

Re: Minesweeper thermodynamics

#44

There are other squares to click on on the other side of that "probability wall" that might reveal more info at a lesser danger percentage.

Yes, (original author here) in fact all the cells outside this region have an even better safety probability of 80.1%. I think the best move might be to start fresh in a new corner.

Re: Minesweeper thermodynamics

#45
Interestingly, the main problem with Minesweeper is that is a game of chance (so the approach discussed in the article is very appropriate).

For a minesweeper variant purely based on logic, I highly recommend the game Tametsi. It has 160 handcrafted levels, and some have very interesting geometrical arrangements. I have logged over 100 hours in this game.

Re: Minesweeper thermodynamics

#46
The article makes a serious math error early on.

The author’s math considers how mines would be distributed if mines were distributed to the empty squares after reaching that board state.

This is wrong.

This is classic Monty Hall Problem. The author is doing the equivalent of saying “there are two doors left, so the odds are 50 / 50 that the prize is behind either door.

It invalidates all of the numbers after this point.

Re: Minesweeper thermodynamics

#47
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is to an extent a party trick to befuddle lay people. Physicists know perfectly well that temperature is not a well-defined concept out of equilibrium. And when in a population inversion experiment when "temperature" is determined to be negative (or "beyond infinite" if you will) it arises because for a short while you have a non-Boltzmannian distribution.

I don't think they were talking about negative temperature, they just mean that sometimes the convenient quantity to work with is β = 1/T.

Right, using beta is more convenient and also it's better behaved since it doesn't have the weird "goes to infinity then comes back from negative infinity as you keep increasing it" behaviour.

Re: Minesweeper thermodynamics

#48

The article makes a serious math error early on. The author’s math considers how mines would be distributed if mines were distributed to the empty squares after reaching that board state. This is wrong. This is classic Monty Hall Problem. The author is doing the equivalent of saying “there are two doors left, so the odds are 50 / 50 that the prize is behind either door. It invalidates all of the numbers after this po…

I don't agree (I'm the author).

The difference is that Monty knows which of the doors the car is behind and deliberately avoids it, thereby giving away information about where the car is.

Whereas in Minesweeper we've just blindly stumbled across a situation where we have to guess.

It would be like if every show Monty always revealed a random door. Sometimes he would reveal the car and the game would end immediately. In the cases when he didn't reveal the car it really would be 50/50 between the remaining two doors.

Re: Minesweeper thermodynamics

#49

The article makes a serious math error early on. The author’s math considers how mines would be distributed if mines were distributed to the empty squares after reaching that board state. This is wrong. This is classic Monty Hall Problem. The author is doing the equivalent of saying “there are two doors left, so the odds are 50 / 50 that the prize is behind either door. It invalidates all of the numbers after this po…

I don't agree (I'm the author). The difference is that Monty knows which of the doors the car is behind and deliberately avoids it, thereby giving away information about where the car is. Whereas in Minesweeper we've just blindly stumbled across a situation where we have to guess. It would be like if every show Monty always revealed a random door. Sometimes he would reveal the car and the game would end immediately.…

I agree, its definitely not Monty Hall, and IDK why they are so confident.

Re: Minesweeper thermodynamics

#50

Minesweeper is a probabilistic game, that's why you should use probabilistic tools to solve it. For example you can use a particle filter to approximate the distribution of mines. Every time you obtain new information you update the filter so that only distributions compatible with constraints remain. Once you have an approximation to the distribution of mines you can calculate the probability of each spot being a mi…

Most of the times Minesweeper is deterministic, and you can just think and get an empty spot. From time to time, you are unlucky and has to guess.

A few years ago, I modified the version of minesweeper in the "Games" collection of Racket to get more mines per board and get more hard cases. (I added the trick to autoopen the squares that have enough flags around, so it solved all the easy cases and it was more fun. I never upstreamed the changes...)

I like Dragonsweeper (discussed in a sibling comment) because it has a more clear probability and information tradeoff.

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