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Not paying with cash

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Re: Not paying with cash

#221

Post by trenchpilgrim »

asciimike wrote: post #87
trenchpilgrim wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to get a Suica card, which as an foreigner you need to do at the airport train station before you leave to the rest of Japan. https://www.jreast.co.jp/en/multi/welcomesuica/purchase.html

Hilariously, the physical cards can only be topped up at add fare machines (cash only) or ATMs (cash only). If you go down the "add a pasmo/suica on your phone" then you get into licensing issues with the other cabal (credit card issuers): you need to use an Amex to charge it via Apple Pay (IIRC Visa is now supported, but when I tried it last week my card was declined, so... YMMV).

My Visa worked just fine last time I was there.

Re: Not paying with cash

#222

Post by Izkata »

al_borland wrote: post #193
mhast wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using chip and pin is what makes the system secure. The PIN is verified by the chip on the card so it can't be skimmed. (You can copy the PIN of course, but you also need the same physical chip to clone a transaction.) Signing the recipe is a useless security theatre. That's why it's not done in Europe.

I agree 100%. I am very annoyed by it. When I go to the website for the card they proudly proclaim that it uses a signature, as if it means something. It’s also sold as a travel card, and the signature makes it a pain for travel. I had a hell of a time buying a train ticket at the airport in Germany. None of the machines worked, I assume because they wanted a PIN, so I had to try and hunt down a person who would sell…

It's a remnant from when physical card theft was the main concern: You're supposed to sign the back of the card when you first get it, then each time the receipt is signed the cashier is supposed to compare the signature on the receipt to the one on the card.

I remember as a teen reading some stories about how cashiers wouldn't accept cards that didn't have a signature on the back and made people sign it right there in the store, apparently not at all understanding the purpose of it.

Re: Not paying with cash

#223

Post by JohnFen »

lisbbb wrote: post #48

The main problem I have with cash is that we don't have denominations large enough to buy much these days thanks to inflation. The $100 is the new $20, but ATMs won't serve $100s. I buy gas for my car, it's at least $35 right there. Groceries run $80-$120 every trip now. I don't know if revaluation is possible, but we need it. I'm not worried about dirty cash as compared to every purchase being tracked and all the fe…

> ATMs won't serve $100s

In my area, anyway, there are a bunch that do. Not only will they give you $100 bills (by default if you're withdrawing at least that much), but you can also just tell the machine how many of what denomination bills you want the cash in (excluding $1 and $5 bills) and it'll do it.

Re: Not paying with cash

#224

Post by NoGravitas »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #112

One additional feature for paying in cash, is from the business side - a lot of small businesses declare only a part of what's paid in cash, and the rest is kept 'tax free'. While it breaks the law, I kind of feel sympathetic to it, given how much the law tends to advantage big companies.

This is more important for tips. If you pay a tip by card, the tipped worker will have to declare the full value of the tip as income. If you pay by cash, they are supposed to declare the full value of the tip as income, but what's actually reported by the business to the IRS is 15% of sales. Any cash tips over that amount you can probably get away with not reporting.

Re: Not paying with cash

#225

Post by IAmBroom »

basch wrote: post #163
manwe150 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Square is 2.6% + 15¢, so to get 5-7%, you could be doing most transactions under $5. That seems to require fairly high sales volume to make any decent wage though, so there is an added transaction cost for them to “keep good change” instead of serving more customers

Cash costs as much or more to handle. Potentially ranging from 4.7% to over 15%, costs include labor for counting change, closing drawers, preparing deposits, security expenses like armored transport, bank fees for cash services, insuring against significant risks of theft and fraud.

True, but it's a hidden cost, so less "painful" to small merchants.

In the end: fairly unimportant... except for that perceived "cost".

Re: Not paying with cash

#226

Post by NoGravitas »

jojobas wrote: post #94

Of all things, rejecting cash because it's a social construct is a bit unexpected.

The linked article "Do you not like money" gives a bit better explanation. It's not just cash, but all kinds of money that are an "odd, and mildly dystopian" social construct.

The Culture has a proverb, "money is a sign of poverty".

Re: Not paying with cash

#227

Post by IAmBroom »

reorder9695 wrote: post #203
noduerme wrote: post #148

I'm very sympathetic to both the cash-as-privacy and cash-as-fair-access (for unbanked people, to goods and services) arguments, and I won't support any business that doesn't take cash. Credit cards are a snare for the chronically indebted, to shake pennies from their pockets to transfer to the wealthy. However, if you have no debt (which is enough to be considered "wealthy", IMO), you'd be a fool not to use a credit…

Maybe credit cards are different in Europe but I've never seen one with significant benefits really, granted I could be looking at the wrong ones but I have an excellent credit score and presumably could get one. To me a credit card is smth I have so I can put a few transactions though a month and it pays off via direct debit, for the sole purpose of building a credit score for when I do need a loan

Discover pays a noticeable return, as does Amazon's card (which is a legitimate Visa/MC, but you get returns on Amazon purchases).

I pay off monthly, so I win.

Re: Not paying with cash

#228

Post by IAmBroom »

account42 wrote: post #214
socalgal2 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the costs, reguardless of where they are accrued, are figured into the prices every one is paying

Unfortunately in many cases they are also figured into the prices cash customers pay.

That's implied by "every one".

Re: Not paying with cash

#229

Post by IAmBroom »

limagnolia wrote: post #151
noduerme wrote: post #148

I'm very sympathetic to both the cash-as-privacy and cash-as-fair-access (for unbanked people, to goods and services) arguments, and I won't support any business that doesn't take cash. Credit cards are a snare for the chronically indebted, to shake pennies from their pockets to transfer to the wealthy. However, if you have no debt (which is enough to be considered "wealthy", IMO), you'd be a fool not to use a credit…

Most if not all of those rewards are paid for by the interchange that they charge merchants, not the interest they charge customers. Of course, interest and fees are also profitable, but banks are pretty happy if you use the card and pay it off every month.

Because money is fungible, it's meaningless to say "X is paid for by Y not Z", as long as Y and Z are both greater than X.

Re: Not paying with cash

#230

Post by IAmBroom »

noduerme wrote: post #154
limagnolia wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most if not all of those rewards are paid for by the interchange that they charge merchants, not the interest they charge customers. Of course, interest and fees are also profitable, but banks are pretty happy if you use the card and pay it off every month.

Really? I guess I didn't realize that. I always felt a kind of "screw you" joy at paying it off completely every month, like I'm getting away with something lol.

You are. You are reducing the profits of the credit card company.

Not to any meaningful degree, because you and I are outliers by paying our credit balance each month - or else they'd compensate for it with fees.

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