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A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

theatlantic.com

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Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#61
I can definitely vouch for this based on stories from my wife stories (teacher at a private school), her friends (fellow teachers), and my experience working at coworking spaces and coffee shops. [^1]

LLMs can be amazing [^0] as an assistive technology, but using them as a "do it for me" button is just way too easy, so that's how they are de facto used.

I believe it will take about 5-10 years for us to fully comprehend how damaging unplanned remote classrooms and unchecked LLM use in the classroom was. Like heroin, it will be extremely hard to undo our dependence on them by that point. I'm pretty scared for how our students will fare on the global scale in the coming years.

[^0] I strongly believe that 60% of the value of LLMs can be realized by learning how to use a search engine properly. Probably more. Nonetheless, I've fully embraced my accidentally-acquired curmudgeon identity and know that I'm in the minority about this.

[^1] You won't believe how many people leave their laptops unlocked and their screen's contents visible for everyone to see. Committing identity theft has to be easier than ever these days. This basic infosec principle seems to be something we've lost since the great WFH migration.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#62
> We used to share memes about pounding away at the keyboard at 11:57, anxiously rushing to complete our work on time. These moments were not fun, exactly, but they did draw students together in a shared academic experience.

This reminds me of type 1 vs type 2 fun. Type 1 fun is fun in the moment; drinks with friends. Type 2 isn’t fun in the moment but is fun in retrospect. Generally people choose type 1 if given a choice but type 2 I find is the most rewarding. It’s what you’ll talk about with your friends at the bar. I know it’s very much old man, well I guess this high schooler is too, yelling at clouds but I do worry what the elimination of challenge does to our ability to learn and form relationships. I’d expect there to be a sweet spot. Obviously too much challenge and people shut down.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#63
post #42

I’m an AI engineer but I think schools need a nuclear option Banish tech in schools (including cell phones) (except during comp classes) but allow it at home Ie in high school only allow paper and pencil/pen Go back to written exams (handwriting based) Be lenient on spelling and grammer Allow homework, digital tutoring AI assistants and AI only when it not primary- ie for homework not in class work Bring back oral ex…

There's another side of this. The teachers have gotten used to technology, too. They don't want to grade papers by hand anymore.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#64
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said. There are kids who're struggling no matter how hard they try, because the teacher's explanation was miserable, or because they have to actually work part-time for a living. These kids need AI. Without AI they could risk being on the street when they turn 18. Later in life, when their life is more stable, these same kids will be the first to actually use AI to learn the then necessary concepts properly.

I agree we should create the kind of society that allows kids to focus on learning in school. I think just giving up on learning in school and turning it into pretend time where teachers pretend to teach while students pretend to learn is not a solution to any problem

Why does learning have to come only or even primarily from school? What sort of brainwashing is it that mandates it? Why can't a student also learn independently, made more possible by excellent books, online resources, peers, and of course AI? In dollar value terms, schools are an absurdly inefficient way to learn.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#65
post #5

I recently found out that my nephew's school had no take-home homework before high school, instead having kids complete assignments during class time. At first, I was flabbergasted that they would deny kids the discipline building of managing unstructured time without direct supervision. Homework- at home- seemed like such a fundamental part of the schooling experience. Now, I'm thinking that was pretty much they onl…

Reverse classrooms (take home lectures/readings with in-class exercises) aren't that new of a concept. The idea is that instead of valuable classroom time being spent on a teacher spending most of the class time lecturing, they can spend more time working with students on hands-on work. I personally had some teachers apply this 10 or so years ago, and I assume the idea existed prior to them. Though, I'm not sure exac…

This is not what's happening in these schools. Many children have no outside-of-school work -- at all. My two children have had many classes with no homework up through 8th grade. And this is in a highly regarded, very competitive school district.

From what I can tell, this is mostly a parent-led thing, well supported by overworked teachers who are more than willing to avoid even more work grading out-of-school assignments.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#66

I'm a sysadmin for a public school district and the admins are working on rolling out Gemini for students/staff. I've shared all the studies I can find about cognitive decline associated with LLM use, but it seems like it's falling on deaf ears.

Not surprising if this is in a state that wants to push vouchers.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#67
post #5

I recently found out that my nephew's school had no take-home homework before high school, instead having kids complete assignments during class time. At first, I was flabbergasted that they would deny kids the discipline building of managing unstructured time without direct supervision. Homework- at home- seemed like such a fundamental part of the schooling experience. Now, I'm thinking that was pretty much they onl…

There seems to be two schools od thought on this from what I've learned from my wife's experiences.

One school has been abdicating homework for more in-classroom practice, as homework adds more grading and scheduling load on the teacher for little overall benefit. The core idea behind this is that motivated students will always practice at home, even if they aren't explicitly asked to. Unmotivated students --- usually the majority in a typical classroom --- won't or will do a poor job of it.

Another school of thought is the "flipped" classroom. This approach doubles-down on homework by having teachers prepare a pre-recorded lesson for students to watch while they're home and using the classroom as a space for practice and retention. This increases the student's accountability for their own learning while decreasing the teacher's workload over time if they are teaching the same material for a long time (very high initially, of course).

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#68

I'm a sysadmin for a public school district and the admins are working on rolling out Gemini for students/staff. I've shared all the studies I can find about cognitive decline associated with LLM use, but it seems like it's falling on deaf ears.

As a district, aren't you also able to work with Google to enable research and educate modes in addition to the "give me the answer" modes?

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#69

Maybe they can allow AI for writing but raise the bar on quality so the blind copy-paste submissions still fail. I've still never read a good AI-generated doc at work, it's always verbose and aimless. At this point I close the doc if I catch a whiff. Unlike the AI code which is fine. It's probably either that or ban it and do everything in-person, which might have to be the stopgap solution.

I am sure that there are ways of incorporating AI in pedagogically useful ways. But.

Generative AI is new. Pedagogical research involving them is even newer. Teachers are rarely given resources to meaningfully explore new methods. Expecting teachers to stumble through updated processes to enable students to incorporate generative AI is a mess.

Students are also children. They'll take the path of least resistance if it is available to them. Expecting students to meaningfully incorporate generative AI into their learning process rather than just reaching for "ugh this essay is dumb - chatgpt give me an essay on the use of time skipping in To the Lighthouse."

The situation is a total mess.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#70
post #63
post #42

I’m an AI engineer but I think schools need a nuclear option Banish tech in schools (including cell phones) (except during comp classes) but allow it at home Ie in high school only allow paper and pencil/pen Go back to written exams (handwriting based) Be lenient on spelling and grammer Allow homework, digital tutoring AI assistants and AI only when it not primary- ie for homework not in class work Bring back oral ex…

There's another side of this. The teachers have gotten used to technology, too. They don't want to grade papers by hand anymore.

My SO was a TA in college, so I can echo this.

You'd get a stack of 120 blue books to grade in a week's time a few times a quarter.

The grading was entirely just checking if the student used a set of key words and had a certain length. This was a near universal method across the University for blue book exams.

Honestly, an LLM would be a better grader than most stressed out grad students.

Everyone has been phoning it in for a few centuries now

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