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Not paying with cash

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Re: Not paying with cash

#111

Post by singpolyma3 »

bruce511 wrote: post #65
rolph wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think anyone seeing very many piles of merchandise abandoned at checkout would be wise to review such decisions. it would definately be a failure to consider area demographic

Yes, I'm sure it varies by area. But from a business point if view, cash is super expensive to deal with. As a side-effect of an acquisition we inherited a small number of customers that paid in cash. Turns out it's expensive to bank that cash, it's a security risk, it's a risk to the person transporting it and so on. In the general case, if most sales are already by card, the marginal gains of cash transactions are…

For sure. Taking cash is basically a marketing expense not an actual way to get paid.

Re: Not paying with cash

#112

Post by TheAlchemist »

One additional feature for paying in cash, is from the business side - a lot of small businesses declare only a part of what's paid in cash, and the rest is kept 'tax free'.

While it breaks the law, I kind of feel sympathetic to it, given how much the law tends to advantage big companies.

Re: Not paying with cash

#113

Post by s5300 »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #79
dlcarrier wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My banks ATM defaults to $100 bills, and it takes a bunch of taps to get only $20 bills.

My local credit union has switched entirely to machined staff, even inside locations (with attendant staff for transaction impossible via ATM). For some silly reason, the machine stocks only these bills: $5$ $20$ $100$ Why waste an entire cash dispenser on fives when it could instead be handing out fifties (or at least tens)... especially at an ATM!? I think it's time for a $1000 bill, again. Let's get rid of bills l…

>> Why waste an entire cash dispenser on fives when it could instead be handing out fifties (or at least tens)... especially at an ATM!?

Hacker News user unaware Poor People^tm exist

Re: Not paying with cash

#114

Post by gghffguhvc »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #112

One additional feature for paying in cash, is from the business side - a lot of small businesses declare only a part of what's paid in cash, and the rest is kept 'tax free'. While it breaks the law, I kind of feel sympathetic to it, given how much the law tends to advantage big companies.

Paying tax isn’t a big company vs small company thing. A single company not paying tax isn’t that bad directly but it can be infectious. “They don’t pay neither should I” attitude is a problem.

Re: Not paying with cash

#115

Post by homefree »

whycome wrote: post #83
jppope wrote: post #81

I prefer cash, not for the reasons mentioned. First, cash makes me really think about what I'm buying. It doesn't poke you the same way when you tap a card... which is obviously one of the main reasons they want you do use cards. When I use cash, I am reminded of when I didn't have a lot, which keeps me from spending without thought. Next, its a hallmark of the middle class to spend money that you don't have. Myself…

$2 bills?? You’re gonna get the occasional one who thinks you’re scamming them. It’s crazy that Canada, being so similar to the US, got rid of the 1 and 2 like 30 years ago.

I had a funny experience with a French cheese shop in SF for this - I tipped a $2 bill and he called me back in confused thinking it was fake, but was good natured when I showed him it was real.

Re: Not paying with cash

#116

Post by fendy3002 »

decimalenough wrote: post #99
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s thanks to Android phone manufacturers, which don’t want to pay for a global license for the NFC tech involved. Apple on the other hand does pay for a global license and so iPhones and Apple Watches from anywhere work perfectly with Japanese cash card terminals. I use a digital Suica on my US iPhone during my visits. Supposedly Pixels have the requisite hardware, but Google software locks the functionality to J…

The "standard" in question here is NTT Docomo's Osaifu-Keitai, which is used only in Japan and requires both licensing and a special flavor of Sony's Felica chip: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaifu-Keitai I can't really fault Android manufacturers for not wanting to pay extra for every phone in the world to get a bit of proprietary tech that's completely useless outside Japan.

No surprises here, it's Sony. The same company that use propertiary memory card on PS Vita.

Re: Not paying with cash

#117

Post by homefree »

jppope wrote: post #81

I prefer cash, not for the reasons mentioned. First, cash makes me really think about what I'm buying. It doesn't poke you the same way when you tap a card... which is obviously one of the main reasons they want you do use cards. When I use cash, I am reminded of when I didn't have a lot, which keeps me from spending without thought. Next, its a hallmark of the middle class to spend money that you don't have. Myself…

Yes! It's fun to just order 500 $2 bills and carry some everywhere for tips. I do this all the time, it's an easy way to add a little whimsy into someone's day.

Wozniak famously went further and would order sheets of them uncut (costs more), then pay a shop to perforate them for him so he could peel them off for people (making it look really fake).

He had a funny story about doing this at a casino for a slot machine and getting interrogated by the secret service iirc where he handed the guy a fake ID where he had an eye patch and it said he was a laser operator or something. He played dumb about the bills to look more suspicious instead of explaining the truth.

Hard to tell if it was just a tall tale, but given that it was Woz it was probably mostly real.

Re: Not paying with cash

#118

Post by wilkystyle »

devilbunny wrote: post #78
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article and none of the comments mention rewards yet, which are the biggest reason to use cards! In my observation being that much incentivized by the reward system seems to be a very US-American thing. In Germany, I have never heard anybody seriously talking about that they love the reward system of their credit card. I would claim that at most some (but I think rather few) people in Germany consider some very…

Credit card financial protections for Americans are one of the most strongly pro-customer sets of laws we have in the US. The rewards are a nice way to get some of your money back, but you really can’t be cleaned out by fraud on actual credit cards (not debit cards using the MC/Visa logo and payment system). “That is an unauthorized charge, please cancel the card” is perfectly acceptable. In theory you are on the hoo…

Yep. I exclusively pay via credit card for this reason alone. (I have my autopay set to pay down the entire balance each month)

Rewards are nice, but not the primary reason I use a credit card.

Re: Not paying with cash

#119

Post by cperciva »

al_borland wrote: post #71
bruce511 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm sure it varies by area. But from a business point if view, cash is super expensive to deal with. As a side-effect of an acquisition we inherited a small number of customers that paid in cash. Turns out it's expensive to bank that cash, it's a security risk, it's a risk to the person transporting it and so on. In the general case, if most sales are already by card, the marginal gains of cash transactions are…

How does that cost of accepting cash compare to the interchange fees? I’ve heard business owners say interchange fees were their single largest expense after payroll. I’ve also gotten discounts on large purchases for paying “cash” (check). They effectively deducted the interchange fee from my bill. If cash was so expensive to process, they wouldn’t be doing this.

The Bank of Canada did a report about this a few years back, and found that cash was the cheapest payment form for merchants to handle for transactions of up to $6 while debit cards were cheaper above that point; credit cards of course were never the best option for merchants.

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2017/03/staff-discussion-paper-2...

Re: Not paying with cash

#120

Post by raincole »

csinode wrote: post #7
Shank wrote: post #4

One thing I really love that Japan got right was the creation of e-money systems that are anonymous (you can get a Suica for 20,000 yen without any registration information), work offline (you don't need network at-payment, nor does the terminal), and are easily accessible (you can get them at any train station, you can charge them at any ATM or convenience store with cash). In contrast, a debit/credit card usually r…

> work offline (you don't need network at-payment, nor does the terminal) Surely this is massively vulnerable to double spend attacks?

In Taiwan, there is a similar system called EasyCard. That works offline.

...And as you expect it is vulnerable to double spend attacks. Hilariously the vulnerability was revealed in 2014 and nothing has been done to mitigate it. Yes, you can double spend in Taiwan today if you don't mind risking jail time.

From my (rudimentary) understanding of CAP, there is no prefect solution to this. I wonder how Japan handles it.

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