You can pay with "cash" while using cards. Gets some of the advantages - not all.
How can you replicate the anonymity of cash with a card?
Prepaid debit cards usually do not require identification.
Not paying with cash
11–20 of 259 posts
Re: Not paying with cash
#12One thing I really love that Japan got right was the creation of e-money systems that are anonymous (you can get a Suica for 20,000 yen without any registration information), work offline (you don't need network at-payment, nor does the terminal), and are easily accessible (you can get them at any train station, you can charge them at any ATM or convenience store with cash). In contrast, a debit/credit card usually r…
> work offline (you don't need network at-payment, nor does the terminal) Surely this is massively vulnerable to double spend attacks?
It's been in widespread use for a while at this point so in practice probably not. I imagine the authentication keys to present as a card are very tightly controlled and not just anyone can become a provider.
Re: Not paying with cash
#13The paragraph about the inconvenience of cash resonates with me. It’s a pain to manage and easy to lose or get stolen. At least if I drop my wallet full of cards, in a couple of calls any fraudulent transactions will be voided and the cards turned useless, but stolen cash is just gone.
That’s not to discount its upsides but its downsides shouldn’t be handwaived away either.
Re: Not paying with cash
#14I'll always remember the time when the tourist town of Ely, Minnesota, USA had it's single fiber internet cable cut. Pretty much all the groups there trying to rent canoes, equipment, hotels, etc with corporate cards weren't able to do it. We were lucky our group brought cash. A society depending entirely on corporations for currency function is incredibly fragile in addition to corporate payment services being rent…
This seems like the ideal use case for satellite internet like starlink though. Main fiber connection, but a satellite backup. The trend I predict is just more robust redundant connections, not people giving up on cards.
Re: Not paying with cash
#15I buy any fast food with cash. I don't need a helpful Insurance company data mining my habits.
Re: Not paying with cash
#16I got irritated with the profusion of "no cash accepted" signs a few years back and started making a point of always carrying cash, to use whenever practical. I don't take it to an extreme, but I also don't want to live in a world where every transaction is trackable and all commerce is regulated by Visa, Mastercard, Apple, or Google.
Re: Not paying with cash
#17I'll always remember the time when the tourist town of Ely, Minnesota, USA had it's single fiber internet cable cut. Pretty much all the groups there trying to rent canoes, equipment, hotels, etc with corporate cards weren't able to do it. We were lucky our group brought cash. A society depending entirely on corporations for currency function is incredibly fragile in addition to corporate payment services being rent…
I never thought I’d see Ely mentioned on HN.
http://moosebay.com is a close family friend who lives in and guides out of Ely. I had a great trip there many years ago.
I’ll have to ask them about your story, surely they remember it happening.
Re: Not paying with cash
#18Budgeting with the data trail of a card is significantly easier if you have a lot of transactions.
It's also generally cheaper due to cashback and other incentives.
Other than that I've always found the idea that cash is "inconvenient" a bit of a child-like argument. Okay, yeah, you have to count some coins, you also have to brush your teeth and use a knife and fork instead of your hands, come on.
Re: Not paying with cash
#19One thing I really love that Japan got right was the creation of e-money systems that are anonymous (you can get a Suica for 20,000 yen without any registration information), work offline (you don't need network at-payment, nor does the terminal), and are easily accessible (you can get them at any train station, you can charge them at any ATM or convenience store with cash). In contrast, a debit/credit card usually r…
Meanwhile, there's no apparent way to pay for a train using an American android phone (or at least I couldn't figure it out last year). One of the two apps refused to install on non-japanese phones, the other installed but refused to run. Had to pay with cash and it was a huge pain. Half the time I inexplicably had to do a fare adjustment, a hugely embarrassing moment blocking the turnstile, especially considering th…
That’s thanks to Android phone manufacturers, which don’t want to pay for a global license for the NFC tech involved. Apple on the other hand does pay for a global license and so iPhones and Apple Watches from anywhere work perfectly with Japanese cash card terminals. I use a digital Suica on my US iPhone during my visits.
Supposedly Pixels have the requisite hardware, but Google software locks the functionality to Japan. Some have been able to hack their Pixels to force it on but from what I’ve gathered it’s flaky when you do that.
Re: Not paying with cash
#20Australian here, like the author. Apple Pay (and equivalents) work _everywhere_ here, including at the tiniest market stalls, and for the smallest purchases. I stopped carrying my wallet the moment my driver licence was available on my phone, the last piece of plastic I was mandated to carry around.
While the paranoid nerd in me might occasionally wonder about all my spending being tracked, watching someone fumble with magic pieces of ~paper~ plastic and metal in a supermarket now looks as quaint to me as someone taking their pig to market to exchange for some eggs and bread.