As a musician I wanted to hear the notes on the diagram so I made a little tool to do so: https://coltrane.sven.zone
John Coltrane's Tone Circle
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Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle
#22Nothing upper-middle class people love more than worshiping dead black Americans, while treating their descendants like dangerous parasites. They were so cool, such genius! I can't wait to be the authority on them, and make more on redefining them than they ever saw in their lives, or to buy the new product that no black American makes a dime from. One day, every black American will be gone, and all that will be left…
You ok man? Having a bad day?
Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle
#23A few months ago, I was studying Giant Steps and I came across the “Giant Steps is actually very simple (yes, really)” video by Dave Pollack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd75Mwo4JNo Pollack argues that the main reason that Giant Steps is such a high mountain is because it is traditionally played at such a ferocious tempo. Slow it down, and the Coltrane Changes become fairly ordinary ii-V-I substitution progressio…
Not only does it cycle through a ton of keys, but wind instruments like the sax require unique fingerings and embouchure changes in each key. It’s not nearly as hard on a guitar.
“Quantity has a quality of its own.” — Karl Marx, or maybe Coltrane.
Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle
#24Nothing upper-middle class people love more than worshiping dead black Americans, while treating their descendants like dangerous parasites. They were so cool, such genius! I can't wait to be the authority on them, and make more on redefining them than they ever saw in their lives, or to buy the new product that no black American makes a dime from. One day, every black American will be gone, and all that will be left…
You ok man? Having a bad day?
GP is describing a well-known phenomenon that spans countries, cultures and history: majority culture having a love/hate relationship with minorities, with extraordinary individuals on one side and diffuse fear and hatred on the other. Go read Othello's speeches.
So I know what they're saying. Do you not?
Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle
#25> Thelonious Monk once said “All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians“. I haven’t heard that one. I think I prefer this one, attributed to Leibniz: “Music is the pleasure the human mind experiences from counting without being aware that it is counting.”
On the bandstand, there's usually a ton of highly aware counting going on. 24 bars of rest! followed by 8 bars of rest! and then 16 bars of latin feel! now back to 8 of swing!
On top of that there is definitely some feel and intuition going on. But for a band to play non-trivial music, everyone is counting unless they know the material cold, and even then they are probably counting at times.
Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle
#26Nothing upper-middle class people love more than worshiping dead black Americans, while treating their descendants like dangerous parasites. They were so cool, such genius! I can't wait to be the authority on them, and make more on redefining them than they ever saw in their lives, or to buy the new product that no black American makes a dime from. One day, every black American will be gone, and all that will be left…
Deification of artists in theory writing is commonplace, as is aspiring to be seen as an authority. The subject matter could have been Mozart, or Picasso — you'd see the same phenomena.
I agree that we have some distance to go in ensuring that wealth moves to the communities that created the art and the value, but absent evidence that this author has been "treating their descendants like dangerous parasites", I think they're catching strays from you.
Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
You ok man? Having a bad day?
GP is describing a well-known phenomenon that spans countries, cultures and history: majority culture having a love/hate relationship with minorities, with extraordinary individuals on one side and diffuse fear and hatred on the other. Go read Othello's speeches. So I know what they're saying. Do you not?
Not every instance of white people liking or consuming black culture is that of a racist parasite trying to bleed the culture dry though. Sometimes white people just like stuff, and their interests overlap (as in this case with esotericism and music.) Culture works that way for everyone. The author doesn't seem to be trying to redefine anything or whitewash John Coltrane or what have you.
Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle
#28A few months ago, I was studying Giant Steps and I came across the “Giant Steps is actually very simple (yes, really)” video by Dave Pollack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd75Mwo4JNo Pollack argues that the main reason that Giant Steps is such a high mountain is because it is traditionally played at such a ferocious tempo. Slow it down, and the Coltrane Changes become fairly ordinary ii-V-I substitution progressio…
Ah yes the best welcome for people joining a jam session: "OK, let's do Giant Steps. One, one two three..."
Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle
#29Mathy look at the topology and some stuff about Yusef Lateef:
https://medium.com/@lucas_gonze/coltrane-pitch-diagrams-e25b...
Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle
#30Nothing upper-middle class people love more than worshiping dead black Americans, while treating their descendants like dangerous parasites. They were so cool, such genius! I can't wait to be the authority on them, and make more on redefining them than they ever saw in their lives, or to buy the new product that no black American makes a dime from. One day, every black American will be gone, and all that will be left…
> Nothing upper-middle class people love more than worshiping dead black Americans, while treating their descendants like dangerous parasites.
I know, right? It's those Dutch folks living in Bulgaria hating black American descendants again, eh? /s
So, to be serious, do you have evidence that Roelant Hollanderr is treating black American descendants as "dangerous parasites"? Those are pretty hefty accusations. I haven't found anything on their website, but I am sure you have some solid evidence somewhere.