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Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

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Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#61

Post by jonknee »

deelowe wrote: post #53

This "journalist" puts 1 single Chinese company under a microscope and incites people of first world nations to pick up their pitch forks and torches in protest. Sure the conditions at Foxconn are terrible in comparison to my world view, but I'm not Chinese and my world view is irrelevant here. You know how I know this article is trash? This statement right here: "It also appears that windows have had bars put over t…

You're not Chinese, but the "journalist" as you say is. This wasn't a Western hit piece.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#62

Post by geon »

tluyben2 wrote: post #11

If that is true, why don't they have robots already? I know they are planning[1], however that kind of work seems to be very easily replaced by a robot (who will have a far higher accuracy and less failure rate than humans especially for the task the journalist describes). [1] http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/industrial-robot...

They don't even need a robot. Silk screening or stamping must be a better alternative than a pen. Or at least use a jig.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#63

Post by k2enemy »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #24

Anyone who has significant issues with this needs to stop buying anything marked made in China. There are some interesting bits in there from the perspective of understanding the manufacturing process, but in terms of the worker conditions and so on, it's nothing new and anyone for whom this is news has presumably been hiding under a rock for the last couple of years and making a concious effort not to think about ho…

Boycotting Chinese produced goods in an effort to make Chinese workers better off seems a little misguided. The workers at Foxconn evidently find that job better than the next best job, or having no job at all.

There's no doubt that working conditions in China can and should improve, and there's nothing wrong with trying to accelerate the process. But taking money out of the country probably isn't the answer. They are transitioning from a developing country to a developed one, and it is a process that will take time. Coercing the entire country (with boycotts) into improving conditions seems unlikely, and just focusing on one factory will only hurt the workers at that one factory.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#64

Post by knwang »

sp332 wrote: post #45
knwang wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foxxcoon pays about 400 USD a month - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/technology/foxconn-to-rais... and if that's for 7 days a week 10 hours a day as the reporter said, that's 300 hours.. so 1.33 dollars per hour. BTW, the typical salary range for a junior Ruby dev in a second or third tier city in China is about 800 - 1600 USD per month. Just to put things in perspectives

I'm not sure that gives any perspective. It's pretty obvious that any kind of "skilled labor" like programming will pay better than "unskilled labor" like making oil dots on a piece of aluminum.

The point is that just on salary, it's not bad at all, for where the factory is.

But they work a lot more hours.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#65

Post by zv »

knwang wrote: post #39
sp332 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was his pay for overtime. I don't think they were paying him time-and-a-half, in fact I think they probably paid him less for the overtime. So I'm guessing he made more than $2/hr for most of that 10 days.

Foxxcoon pays about 400 USD a month - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/technology/foxconn-to-rais... and if that's for 7 days a week 10 hours a day as the reporter said, that's 300 hours.. so 1.33 dollars per hour. BTW, the typical salary range for a junior Ruby dev in a second or third tier city in China is about 800 - 1600 USD per month. Just to put things in perspectives

The article mentions it takes 48 people to make oil markings on back plate. That means 19200$/month for wages. I could make a robot that's 10x more productive for half the price.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#66

Post by knwang »

knwang wrote: post #64
sp332 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that gives any perspective. It's pretty obvious that any kind of "skilled labor" like programming will pay better than "unskilled labor" like making oil dots on a piece of aluminum.

The point is that just on salary, it's not bad at all, for where the factory is. But they work a lot more hours.

And to put the "working hours" thing in perspective, it is typical in cities like Shenzhen to work their programmers 10 hours a day, five and a half days a week. So what sounds like horrible from a Western perspective may not be "too horrible" in the local sense. Remember, all those workers volunteered to work there and they can leave as they want. Sure, it's unbearable for some white collared journalist from Shanghai, but what about someone otherwise would have to plant rice in the field under the sun, or go down a tunnel to mine coal?

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#67

Post by podperson »

This sounds horrible. I would hate to do it. But it actually sounds much less bad than working in an order fulfillment warehouse in the United States (at least you can go home to sleep, I guess).

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-f...

Amazon is a market leader too, and there's almost no coverage of how it treats its workers. Likewise Google and Samsung (the latter is considered unusually bad, having engaged in coverups).

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#68

Post by mcantelon »

deelowe wrote: post #53

This "journalist" puts 1 single Chinese company under a microscope and incites people of first world nations to pick up their pitch forks and torches in protest. Sure the conditions at Foxconn are terrible in comparison to my world view, but I'm not Chinese and my world view is irrelevant here. You know how I know this article is trash? This statement right here: "It also appears that windows have had bars put over t…

>This "journalist" puts 1 single Chinese company under a microscope and incites people of first world nations to pick up their pitch forks and torches in protest. Sure the conditions at Foxconn are terrible in comparison to my world view, but I'm not Chinese and my world view is irrelevant here.

Did you actually read the article? A Chinese journalist reporting in Chinese media would indicate that Foxconn's conditions are a concern to the Chinese "world view". Apple is the most profitable company in the world, yet they continue to choose a manufacturing partner that treats workers poorly.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#69

Post by knwang »

jonknee wrote: post #61
deelowe wrote: post #53

This "journalist" puts 1 single Chinese company under a microscope and incites people of first world nations to pick up their pitch forks and torches in protest. Sure the conditions at Foxconn are terrible in comparison to my world view, but I'm not Chinese and my world view is irrelevant here. You know how I know this article is trash? This statement right here: "It also appears that windows have had bars put over t…

You're not Chinese, but the "journalist" as you say is. This wasn't a Western hit piece.

just want to point out that merely "being Chinese" does not make the journalist as qualified as you may think.

Think it like some journalist in NYC working for a major media company goes to some manufacturing plant in the Midwest, finding people are doing hard work under not good enough conditions. And that'll give some perspectives.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#70

Post by aneth4 »

A few things to note: - The job was taken voluntarily - The employee can resign at any time - The pay is not horrible. $2/hr for overtime is very high for China, and much higher than could be made at most jobs outside of professional occupations in major cities.

Working in a factory in China is not a glorious undertaking, but it is not (in this case) slave labor nor is it unethical.

The author suggests robots could do this, but instead they use humans - as if it were a horrible thing to voluntarily employ humans. Do you think those earning a living there would prefer to be fired and replaced by robots?

There are horrible situations in China - like the gulag prison labor system. There are certainly factories where children are put to work unethically and illegally (as there are in the US). This article however exposes nothing alarming.

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