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Next.js is infuriating

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Re: Next.js is infuriating

#511

Post by conor- »

tacker2000 wrote: post #392
conor- wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can’t logger().info() just work in a sensible way? I think OTEL is pretty sensible for a vendor-free and if you want to have a console logger you can use the console exporter[0] for debug mode during local development. Also if Next is designed as a framework to make it easy to build production-grade apps, having a standardized way to implement o11y with OTEL is a worthwhile tradeoff? If you view that as being o…

Again, why would one need such a heavyweight tool? Most frameworks have powerful loggers out of the box, like Monolog in the PHP world.

What specifically is heavyweight about OTEL? At its core it's a standard for producing structured logs along with some standards for exporting/collection. The heaviness is really implementation-specific and can vary stack to stack

There's even a handler for monolog in PHP - they are not necessarily mutually exclusive

https://github.com/open-telemetry/opentelemetry-php/blob/mai...

Re: Next.js is infuriating

#512

Post by RadiozRadioz »

Rauchg wrote: post #5

Heard and appreciate the feedback. We’re well aware of the DX papercuts in Middleware. With 15.5 we made a big step in supporting Node runtime[1] which addresses a slew of issues people have reported over time. If I went back in time, I would have called it Routing Middleware or Routing Handler. A specific hook to intercept during the routing phase, which can be delivered to the CDN edge for specialized providers. It…

> Since OP mentions logging [...] we’ve embraced OpenTelemetry

I really hate this stuff. Users raise feedback for something they need, the dev team considers the feedback, they spend a really long time thinking about the most perfect abstraction, scope the problem way out to some big fundamental system, and come up with an extremely complicated solution that is "best". The purist committee-approved solution could technically be used to address what the user asked for, with a lot of work, but that's no longer the focus. Pragmatism goes out the window; it's all about inventing fun abstract puzzles.

All the while, the user just wanted to log things.

Not saying that's the exact situation here, but the phrasing in the comment was all too real to me.

Re: Next.js is infuriating

#513

Post by tobyhinloopen »

balamatom wrote: post #25
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #3

[flagged]

JavaScript was made insufficiently expressive on purpose (see Eich, Sun, Scheme). He still ended up sneaking some metaprogramming capabilities into it, though he stopped short of something recognizable like macros. So when the highest grade vendors started taking front end extra seriously since I'd say 2008-2010, what they built basically bulldozed over the things that made JS per se tolerable. Instead, they built fr…

Is there a solution? What do you consider the least bad interactive frontend solution?

Re: Next.js is infuriating

#514

Post by mablopoule »

thr0w wrote: post #464
jimbokun wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Javascript's answer to Spring.

That would be Nest , not Next . A true abomination.

I'm a bit surprised at reading that. I've tried both, Next left a bad taste in my mouth, but Nest was kinda neat. Didn't used it for anything too complicated though, so I'm curious about what sort of grievances people have against Nest.

Re: Next.js is infuriating

#515

Post by christophilus »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #442
christophilus wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second worst for me. I’ve used Sharepoint.

To me, Sharepoint feels like it's not sure what it's supposed to be, so it tries to be everything, and so feature creep has run so rampant that it's just an utter mess with awful performance.

To me, Sharepoint feels like it was vibe coded by the first primitive coding agent, and then made worse over time.

Re: Next.js is infuriating

#516

Post by francisduvivier »

haltcase wrote: post #492
francisduvivier wrote: post #115

I recently migrated 2 projects away from Next.js to Vite. It was a lot of work, Next.JS handles quite a lot of stuff: translations, authentication, bundling, css stuff, caching... But it was very much worth it for lowering my daily infuration. I don't think I'll be using NextJS again if I don't have to.

In what way does Next.js handle translations or authentication? It doesn't prescribe or even do much to simplify either of those things.

Well you have next-i18next and NextAuth.js, those integrations with Next.js help for getting something running quickly.

Re: Next.js is infuriating

#518

Post by ohdeargodno »

encom wrote: post #481
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an absolutely awful syntax. How Powershell ever got popular is beyond me.

Right? This is your brain on Windows.

yeah | it's | so | much | better | with | bash | tr | cut -d' ' -t5 | jq .entry[].text | sed -i s/who/evenknows/g

Anyone who has ever maintained a semi complex set of bash invocations and pipes knows it's a fragile incantation that breaks anytime you look at it funny, or something in your chain produces unexpected output.

Powershell, while absolutely horrible to read and only slightly less horrible to write (hey look, proper auto completion instead of trying to cut on the 4th, wait no sorry 5th, ah fuck it's the 6th there's an invisible space) at least produces consistent and reproductible results.

No, your python script doesn't count, it makes me do a pip install requests. Oh, sorry, pip can't be used like that, gotta run apt instill python3-pip or my whole system breaks.

Re: Next.js is infuriating

#519

Post by hirvi74 »

terandle wrote: post #453
martinald wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is I'm spoilt by asp.net, which has so much bad 'stigma' in the (esp startup) dev community but it is _extremely_ well designed. You get a very batteries included approach(es) but you can always punch out of it and override it. I've never got into a situation where I'm feeling like I'm fighting the framework. I also really like both Blazor Server and Blazor Webasm which allows you to write the frontend in C# to…

Blazor is not good at anything. Please stick with JS for the frontend .NET devs. You'll thank me later.

What issues have you encountered?

As old school as it may be, I can accomplish basically everything my users need with just vanilla JS and .fetch() requests.

I've been playing with Blazor, and it's been great so far. However, like everything, I know it's not perfect.

Re: Next.js is infuriating

#520

Post by c-hendricks »

fourseventy wrote: post #357
throwaway77385 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one thinking this. I built a medium-complexity, money-making, production-grade app in Next.js and started out on Vercel's hosting (and Google Firebase) and then moved to hosting myself and stripping out Firebase, replacing it with Pocketbase. Pocketbase was the ONLY good thing about this journey. Everything else sucked just so terribly. Infinite complexity everywhere, breaking changes CON…

" Codebases from years ago are still rock-solid." This is the biggest thing for me. I recently pulled down an 8 year old hobby Java/Maven project I had and it compiled and ran perfectly on the first try. Imagine trying to get an 8 year old javascript project to work...

Just did, I installed the version of node specified somewhere, codified it into mise, and was up and running in no time.
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