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Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

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Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#41

Anyone who has significant issues with this needs to stop buying anything marked made in China. There are some interesting bits in there from the perspective of understanding the manufacturing process, but in terms of the worker conditions and so on, it's nothing new and anyone for whom this is news has presumably been hiding under a rock for the last couple of years and making a concious effort not to think about ho…

And if we all stop buying "Made in Chine" I seriuosly doubt that condition for chines people will improve.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#43

Anyone who has significant issues with this needs to stop buying anything marked made in China. There are some interesting bits in there from the perspective of understanding the manufacturing process, but in terms of the worker conditions and so on, it's nothing new and anyone for whom this is news has presumably been hiding under a rock for the last couple of years and making a concious effort not to think about ho…

>That's not to make light of the conditions, just to say that we're all somewhat complicit and any outrage needs to be matched with action, not just against Apple but against anyone using Foxconn or their peers. I presume Apple has the largest clout with Foxconn and can essentially demand better worker conditions from them. Other companies may not have as much leverage, though I agree there needs to be more awareness…

Apple may be Foxconn's biggest customer but this isn't just Foxconn and it isn't just China.

Put this in the perspective it really needs - what percentage of Asia's comparable manufacturing output do you think Apple accounts for?

And now consider that it's not just Asia, it's countries all over South and Central America and Eastern Europe.

A friend of mine used to be a town planner and part of his job was getting planning permission for new McDonald's sites. When you're pitching to the relevant authorities in the UK, you're under no obligation to reveal who your customer is, just the basic nature of the business (in this case fast food restaurant). But, he said, they would often hint (in a deniable manner obviously) that they were representing Burger King because McDonald's had such a bad reputation.

That reputation while largely deserved, distinguished them only from what we'd want them to be like, not from their competitors. Any fast food chain on that scale at a corporate level is largely indistinguishable from McDonald's - it's how they remain competitive.

But McDonalds' rep meant that they got the kicking so people would rather have a (morally identical) Burger King in their town. Cosmetically a win perhaps, in reality nothing got any better anywhere.

What I'm saying in a very roundabout way, if you boycott Apple, if all you do is move your custom to another organisation who are no better, you've made close to no difference at all. If this really bothers you, then you probably need to look further afield for your next smartphone or PC or tablet than the next big player.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#44
post #40
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does anyone know of an adroid (or any brand, really) phone that is made in north america or europe?

This link ( http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57389858-1/are-any-smart... ) is from earlier in the year, so I'm not sure how applicable it is these days.

Does anyone have any knowledge of whether Taiwan, Malaysia or Korea are likely to provide better conditions?

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#45
post #39
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was his pay for overtime. I don't think they were paying him time-and-a-half, in fact I think they probably paid him less for the overtime. So I'm guessing he made more than $2/hr for most of that 10 days.

Foxxcoon pays about 400 USD a month - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/technology/foxconn-to-rais... and if that's for 7 days a week 10 hours a day as the reporter said, that's 300 hours.. so 1.33 dollars per hour. BTW, the typical salary range for a junior Ruby dev in a second or third tier city in China is about 800 - 1600 USD per month. Just to put things in perspectives

I'm not sure that gives any perspective. It's pretty obvious that any kind of "skilled labor" like programming will pay better than "unskilled labor" like making oil dots on a piece of aluminum.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#46
post #39
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was his pay for overtime. I don't think they were paying him time-and-a-half, in fact I think they probably paid him less for the overtime. So I'm guessing he made more than $2/hr for most of that 10 days.

Foxxcoon pays about 400 USD a month - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/technology/foxconn-to-rais... and if that's for 7 days a week 10 hours a day as the reporter said, that's 300 hours.. so 1.33 dollars per hour. BTW, the typical salary range for a junior Ruby dev in a second or third tier city in China is about 800 - 1600 USD per month. Just to put things in perspectives

What's the typical wage for unskilled labor? That seems like a more relevant data point.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#47

After the mess that was the last Apple Foxconn story, and with all the economic pressure that affects newspapers & news media, it becomes increasingly difficult for me to believe stories like these. It's not that I don't suppose that there're bad working conditions at Foxconn - there probably are. No, it's that even if the journalist in this story managed to sneak in, and work there, he probably added tons of hyperbo…

    he probably added tons of hyperbole and wrong encounters into his story, just to make it all the more dramatic.
Are you basing this accusation on something or just pulling it out of thin air? You probably cheat on tests, steal other people's ideas, and slack off at work so everyone else has to work harder to accommodate you. Baseless accusations don't feel good, do they?

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#48
I think we need conscious consumerism in the electronics industry just like we have now in food, clothing, etc. I think a lot of people would consider electronics made with first-world labor practices and livable wages. It would be a bit more expensive and niche at first, but it would make an impression.

This is an area where Google and/or an Android vendor could make a splash. "Fair trade" gadgets?

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#49

Anyone who has significant issues with this needs to stop buying anything marked made in China. There are some interesting bits in there from the perspective of understanding the manufacturing process, but in terms of the worker conditions and so on, it's nothing new and anyone for whom this is news has presumably been hiding under a rock for the last couple of years and making a concious effort not to think about ho…

So your philosophy is to ignore the things you don't like? That may help you sleep better at night, but the world doesn't stop turning when you close your eyes. IMHO a better philosophy is accept the hypocrisy of willful indifference or try to make a difference. I don't find willful indifference to be 'action'.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#50

Anyone who has significant issues with this needs to stop buying anything marked made in China. There are some interesting bits in there from the perspective of understanding the manufacturing process, but in terms of the worker conditions and so on, it's nothing new and anyone for whom this is news has presumably been hiding under a rock for the last couple of years and making a concious effort not to think about ho…

I agree with what you say. The problem is not limited to one manufacturer, and it is annoying and frustrating that it's framed in that way.

Why do people like to jump at one manufacturer while ignoring almost all of the others who have devices built in unsavoury conditions?

> not to think about how certain countries can make things this cheaply.

Some products - a t-shirt from a budget shop - cost a few dollars. We kind of expect those products to be made in a sweat shop. We hope there's at least some kind of legal regulation. And then there are expensive designer t-shirts - a $150 billionaire boys club t-shirt - and we really hope that these garments are not made in the same sweat shops. We really hope that some of that $150 trickles down to the factory in the form of much better regulation and conditions and pay.

Fairtrade-like schemes could work here, if they're done properly.

Bob produces widgets. He gets paid $0.20 per widget. I as the end consumer buy a widget for $1.00

If I pay $1.02, that's a 2% increase for me, and if that whole $0.02 goes to Bob he gets $0.22, a 10% increase.

Unfortunately, it feels like I pay $1.10, and Bob gets $0.02.

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