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The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

howtogrow.substack.com

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Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#41

Post by Joel_Mckay »

dustincoates wrote: post #39
jampa wrote: post #23

I remember working at a company where we used a vendor extensively in their mid-tier plan. We wanted an enterprise plan with more features, so we reached out to buy it. So, their salesperson was shooting a penalty with no goalkeeper: All they needed to do was send an offer, and we would negotiate and close the deal. Instead, they called my CTO multiple times, all at awkward times, like during his lunch. When he didn'…

I've had even worse. We wanted to buy a product and couldn't do so on our own, so I left my contact information on their "speak to a sales person" form. No response for a week. So I emailed an email address that was included in the onboarding email. No response for another week. So I sent their CEO a message on LinkedIn. Hey, I really want to buy, let's talk. No response for another week (and four months later). So I…

For B2B, there are often close relationships with client interests. If a small firm signs a non-compete and NDA with a competitor, it can cost a lot more than a single sale to chat.

Also, in niche industries everyone already knows one another for decades. People looking to fragment that market are seen as a problem even if they don't know they are a problem.

It is rude to "ghost" people, but it is unfortunately a modern pop-culture trend. Most competent firms should at minimum refer your team to a competitor if their schedule is full for the year. =3

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#42

Post by soanvig »

smackeyacky wrote: post #14
soanvig wrote: post #11

I hate sales people. This blogpost describes sales strategy as obvious as it is annoying, just like described seller-push. Written in a fashion of trying to sell me something. Just stop manipulating for a second, ok? But I guess the profession would not exist then.

Whether you like it or not, somebody selling keeps most of us in a job. Mostly I’m a software developer but I’m in a role now that requires selling. The simple truth is that most people need some kind of push to get them to make a decision. Whether that’s a needs based thing as described in “buyer-pull” or a couple of little harmless manipulations doesn’t really matter in the end. As long as the customer got what the…

Unfortunately my company needs sales, because other companies have sales. That's a nuclear weapon situation. Sales gives a leverage, pushes company ahead of competition. So the competition have to have sales as well.

I find this situation toxic, but that's just sad truth of the world.

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#43

Post by soanvig »

halfcat wrote: post #12
soanvig wrote: post #11

I hate sales people. This blogpost describes sales strategy as obvious as it is annoying, just like described seller-push. Written in a fashion of trying to sell me something. Just stop manipulating for a second, ok? But I guess the profession would not exist then.

I see what you’re doing. Going after that anti-sales dollar. That’s a good market. Very smart.

Haha it's just all the sales people I met were exactly kind of people I hate, which made me hate sales entirely. There is something special about them: fake smile, gestures etc even in simple face2face conversations

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#44

Post by AbrahamParangi »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #22
CityOfThrowaway wrote: post #15

One of the ways you know if you're really practicing this is if you actively disqualify potential customers after the first call. Not them disqualifying you, but you actively saying, "Hey, not sure we are the right solution for you. Seems like you're trying to achieve X, but we're really better fit if you're trying to achieve Y." This is in lieu of trying to convince them that you're a good fit for X, or that they sh…

That’s antithetical to “this period’s bonus.” Who cares if it dies in three months when the bonus for that three months end up in the salesman’s pocket?

That’s not how it works, you structure the comp such that the sales person doesn’t get paid out in this case.

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#45

Post by jagged-chisel »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #44
jagged-chisel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s antithetical to “this period’s bonus.” Who cares if it dies in three months when the bonus for that three months end up in the salesman’s pocket?

That’s not how it works, you structure the comp such that the sales person doesn’t get paid out in this case.

Is it fair for the company to have received three months of payments from a customer but the salesperson doesn’t get commission at all? How will you retain sales staff when word gets out? What’s the period length over which if the deal dies the salesperson doesn’t get their commission? Do you roll back commission payments later when the customer stops paying?

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#46

Post by nlitened »

webdevver wrote: post #6

my favourite theory of sales is that of the school of cialdini, which is basically treating the customer as something which can lead to money coming out of it if you supply the right verbal and visual stimulus.

This sounds like a viable first-order black-box approximation for beginners. More experienced and skillful sales people surely go beyond that understanding

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#47

Post by nlitened »

hedora wrote: post #26
jagged-chisel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s antithetical to “this period’s bonus.” Who cares if it dies in three months when the bonus for that three months end up in the salesman’s pocket?

Why would you be paying a bonus for deals that die? Sales incentives need to match business incentives or you’re completely screwed. Also: “Coffee is for closers”

You can’t make sales people responsible for the entire company, that’s CEO- and board-level responsibility.

If you don’t give sales bonus for clients that later canceled due to engineering or tech support fuck up, do you expect regular sales people also to do engineering and tech support management in your company?

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#48

Post by rimbo789 »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #45
AbrahamParangi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how it works, you structure the comp such that the sales person doesn’t get paid out in this case.

Is it fair for the company to have received three months of payments from a customer but the salesperson doesn’t get commission at all? How will you retain sales staff when word gets out? What’s the period length over which if the deal dies the salesperson doesn’t get their commission? Do you roll back commission payments later when the customer stops paying?

Yes you clawback commissions. It’s a very common practice.

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#49

Post by skeezyboy »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #41
dustincoates wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had even worse. We wanted to buy a product and couldn't do so on our own, so I left my contact information on their "speak to a sales person" form. No response for a week. So I emailed an email address that was included in the onboarding email. No response for another week. So I sent their CEO a message on LinkedIn. Hey, I really want to buy, let's talk. No response for another week (and four months later). So I…

For B2B, there are often close relationships with client interests. If a small firm signs a non-compete and NDA with a competitor, it can cost a lot more than a single sale to chat. Also, in niche industries everyone already knows one another for decades. People looking to fragment that market are seen as a problem even if they don't know they are a problem. It is rude to "ghost" people, but it is unfortunately a mod…

> If a small firm signs a non-compete and NDA with a competitor, it can cost a lot more than a single sale to chat.

this has nothing to do with not answering emails.

> People looking to fragment that market are seen as a problem even if they don't know they are a problem.

you mean customers?

> It is rude to "ghost" people, but it is unfortunately a modern pop-culture trend

no its not. ignoring people is as old as time.

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#50

Post by MontgomeryPy »

CityOfThrowaway wrote: post #15

One of the ways you know if you're really practicing this is if you actively disqualify potential customers after the first call. Not them disqualifying you, but you actively saying, "Hey, not sure we are the right solution for you. Seems like you're trying to achieve X, but we're really better fit if you're trying to achieve Y." This is in lieu of trying to convince them that you're a good fit for X, or that they sh…

It's optimized for the seller. The sales person that can actually determine good fit/bad fit can't also be making 100 calls a day. The BDR making 100 calls a day cannot determine good fit/bad fit on their own on the first call.
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