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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#421

Post by CalRobert »

rahkiin wrote: post #337
spaqin wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your parents are more likely to be a victim of a phone call scam than malware, even on PC. There is also no guarantee that malware will not slip through cracks of official stores or signatures. You can also choose to do your banking at the physical branch. We already had "best of both worlds", especially on mobile OSes - granular permissions per-app were quite good, and on Android until few years ago root was widely…

In the netherlands we do not have physical branches anymore. They died out. All banking started to go through browser. This was very sensitive to malware and viruses, so two-factor was added through phones. Then less and less people had PCs because phone provides enough. Now mobile apps for banking is the only way to do banking. Or it is required for MFA. Even if you’re calling with the bank it is used as MFA

I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes impossible to even use cash in the Netherlands soon enough. The first year I was here I don't think I did even once. I've been using cash a lot more lately just out of principle and it's annoying - lots of pin-only check out lines, etc.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#422

Post by avodonosov »

Ha-ha.

Android doesn't even let you access your files. It has famously blocked acess to the subfolders of /Android/data - every app has a subfolder there where it sfores files. And you can not visit these subfolders since Android 11.

A buggy app accumulates gigabytes (literaly, i am not exagregating) of temp files there, but i cant visit the folder to delete them.

Google explains that "it's for you safety".

I have to call it with the strong word "idiotic".

There are apps now where storing files in a shared, accessible folder is a payed option.

And in this world you want to own your hardware.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#423

Post by [deleted] »

pishpash wrote: post #238
Almondsetat wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the user cannot be trusted to maintain the hardware and software, then the only responsible thing is to rely on the manufacturer to do so. In those cases, if the support is dropped you buy the newest device.

Did they ask? Some users can be trusted. Is there even a certification program?

[deleted]

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#424

Post by fragmede »

Jolter wrote: post #341
beeflet wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we need the second option to exist? The world is dangerous place. If you can't figure out a computer perhaps you're just unfit to participate in the modern economy. The existence of locked-down hardware eliminates the feasibility of open hardware through network effects. That is what is happening now.

You realize you’re discounting 98% of the world’s population, right?

I think you just made up that number.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#425

Post by wolvesechoes »

zmmmmm wrote: post #165

> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your o…

> However all of these things are not technical

You understand it, but even in this thread you have people proposing solutions like switching from traditional banking to bitcoin, stoping using Netflix and starting torrenting again etc.

Tech crowd always tries to solve non-technical problems through technical means, and this is why I don't have much hope.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#426

Post by Aachen »

daft_pink wrote: post #52

There’s something weird about it. My phone needs to be hyper secure, and a lot of companies went to monetize that and introduce insecurities with their software. That’s why I love my iPhone, but I’m not super happy about what happens with my Mac. There’s something in the reality that it’s the app developers not the user that are being restricted by Apple. Apple keeps the app developers from doing things I don’t like…

> There’s something in the reality that it’s the app developers not the user that are being restricted by Apple.

Reading this comment as a user and developer in one person, it's so weird to see this disjointed picture of developers and users. You should have rights and feel unrestricted as a user but I shouldn't? Have you considered that being a developer is about the same as being a writer instead of a reader? We're the same...

> I don’t want my computer to become a walled garden

Why not? I don't think I can articulate an answer to the "I don't feel restricted" remark earlier better than you can probably do yourself by seeking what it is that rebels against these walls

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#427

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

cryptonector wrote: post #326
zmmmmm wrote: post #165

> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your o…

There is also the possibility that without a [paid] curator (the vendor, like Google or Apple) we can't have security for how do we ascertain provenance? You might not buy that argument, but the vendor will make it, and it will resonate with the public and/or the politicians. Establishing trust with hardware, firmware, and operating system software is currently an intractable problem. Besides the halting problem and…

The digital sovereignty angle will end up quilling the platform lockdown.

There is no way countries agree to have American companies getting so much control on key infrastructures especially in the current context.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#428

Post by breakingcups »

lucideer wrote: post #401
reddalo wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as soon as passkeys started popping up the endgame became clear That's why I'm 100% against passkeys. I'll never use them and I'll make sure nobody I know does. They're just a lock-in mechanism.

"Passkeys" is a new brand name slapped on an older open, interoperable technology, so it's difficult for me to be "against passkeys" as they haven't fundamentally changed anything. Before the branding they were known as FIDO2 "discoverable credentials" or "resident keys". Two things have changed with the rebrand: 1. A lot of platforms are adopting support for FIDO2 resident keys. This is good actually. 2. A lot of la…

Except the FIDO Alliance is trying to pressure KeepassXC to remove exporting passkeys in an open format: https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc/issues/10407

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#429

Post by ted_dunning »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #381
rahkiin wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the netherlands we do not have physical branches anymore. They died out. All banking started to go through browser. This was very sensitive to malware and viruses, so two-factor was added through phones. Then less and less people had PCs because phone provides enough. Now mobile apps for banking is the only way to do banking. Or it is required for MFA. Even if you’re calling with the bank it is used as MFA

I still do banking through a random reader at ABN AMRO. I really hope they never get rid of it because I trust that little dumb plastic device 1000% more than my phone.

What is a "random reader at ABN AMRO"?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#430

Post by Aachen »

fastball wrote: post #73

Much harder to make a secure device that is resistant to getting pwn'd if you can run any code you want. I personally prefer my iPhone to be more secure than to be more open. Buy a more open phone if you want one, but stop trying to use legal means to force the software on my phone to be worse for my use-case just because you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Nobody said that...

You can keep your device enslaved to Apple all you want. You don't have to use the administrator permissions on Windows if you don't want them. Some of us do want freedom

You've got it completely backwards that having the option to control your hardware means you, as an individual, are impacted by anything at all if you don't want to administrate your own device

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