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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#411

Post by euLh7SM5HDFY »

zmmmmm wrote: post #165

> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your o…

> Everything from banks to Netflix and others

I have unlocked bootloader. That's it, I don't even have enabled root account. One app refuses to work anyway: McDonald’s. I actually can't decide if it is more funny or scary.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#413

Post by HacklesRaised »

This seems counter intuitive.

All nflix da should require is the interfaces outer needs.

Network stack CODECS CRYPTO stack (DRM)

The OS seems irrelevant.

I mean sure you worked be limited to whatever interface a browser could provide.

It's not as if certification of a certain operating system means anything other than the certificate.

Netflix used play4sure beck in my days at Apple, and literally t out was a tick box for them to assure the content owners they had DRM.

Nobody certified apple's netflix app for ATV back then, I know, Ben Lee and I wrote it...

We desperately need OS research, exokernels should be a thing by now, at least then the question becomes moot.

Windows, (alphabet)OS, Linux and BSD all provide operating systems that enable productive work but there's a lot of cruft

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#414

Post by Aachen »

nazgu1 wrote: post #394

It is interesting, that when Apple, with small steps, slowly disallowed any kind of sideloading merely nobody took notice of it... and now Google is doing the same, and whole internet protest. Who knows, maybe fact that now there is no alternative for tech-savy, and people are angry now it is good thing in longer perspective for both platforms.

Because I used to have a choice. Since dipping my toes in Android, I remember distinctly in 2012 or maybe 2013 the feeling when I got Xorg and Wireshark running on a Galaxy Note device within the first days. Dead simple! Heck, VirtualBox let me emulate Windows. I could play Rollercoaster Tycoon by attaching a USB keyboard and mouse over this little OTG dongle! Coming from Symbian and having recently started to run Linux on my desktop, and now all that being compatible on my phone, it felt like a miracle

Ahem, where was I

Ah yes: ever since dipping my toes in Android, I've always said I'd never buy an Apple device where I can't run my own software or control what proprietary software does. Now that the freedom is being taken away, the world is changing and I care about it. Until now, it was just a matter of buying any brand except one closed one. Not that hard to avoid

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#415

Post by fragmede »

progval wrote: post #404
kleiba wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone who hasn't spent any time thinking about that matter, could you please elaborate your point?

"Passkeys are incompatible with open-source software" https://www.smokingonabike.com/2025/01/04/passkey-marketing-...

Then how come KeePassXC has them?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#416

Post by nialse »

nialse wrote: post #282
protocolture wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let's be real: Google and Apple have more power than most nations. Lets be real, they do not have more power than any nations. They have a lot of power in a few tiny silos that happen to make up like 90% of the mental space of a lot of terminally online folk. Heck they probably have less power than Coca Cola or Pepsi did during the Cola wars, or United Fruit Company at its height. Wake me up when Apple rolls a tank…

There are power rankings where these top companies are considered more influential than many nations. https://www.realbusinessrescue.co.uk/advice-hub/companies-wo... https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/29/so-who-watches-the-watchme... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/sep/23/amazon-tesl...

Sorry for the terrible formatting. Tried to fix it but the last edit seems to have borked it completely.

www.realbusinessrescue.co.uk/advice-hub/companies-worth-more-than-countries

techcrunch.com/2023/06/29/so-who-watches-the-watchmen

www.theguardian.com/business/2024/sep/23/amazon-tesla-meta-climate-change-democracy

EDIT: Now in plain text since the last URL does not show up otherwise. And why is it rendering with --, its only - in the URL?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#417

Post by pjmlp »

safety1st wrote: post #357
zmmmmm wrote: post #165

> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your o…

I'm going to get wild-eyed now but you can blame Google for that as they're the ones who just announced they'll retroactively ban me from installing software on the computer I bought and own. I don't think you can really solve this problem as long as there's an operating system monopoly, or even duopoly/triopoly. The lure of total control is just too great. Every operating system vendor, hell every intellectual prope…

Meanwhile FOSDEM and similar conferences are full of people carrying Apple devices, and most folks keep picking non-copyleft licenses instead of dual licensing.

The Stallman generation is slowly leaving this realm, the opportunity has been lost already.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#418

Post by retrocog »

Once we have a decentralized trust protocol that has been widely adopted, it will hopefully solve most of these problems. As it stands right now, we can validate control, but not actual ownership. As such, ownership has to be proven via KYC and other centralized methods that rest on state authority. Not a good solution for those who care about privacy and individual freedom!

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#419

Post by greatgib »

Nursie wrote: post #57

I want my less tech savvy family members to be able to buy locked-to-the-company-store hardware, that they can’t run other things on, as it protects them from one avenue of scams and hacks. This protection can and will be worked around if it can be easily disabled. Fully open phone systems consistently fail to sell enough to make a difference, which is a bit of a shame, but honestly at this point the market has spoke…

Nothing prevents that the device is locked by you instead of the "store" or even that the device has a "safe" mode that has to be explicitly disabled by the user in a non obvious way like connecting the device to a computer and running a command or so.

The only important thing is for the bank, Netflix and co to not be able to discriminate. But again nothing would provide the bank to offer a setting for the user to restrict where it can use it's banking app if it was not discriminatory. But we know well where this goes, in the end if you don't enable it

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#420

Post by fragmede »

reddalo wrote: post #358
JeremyNT wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the crux of the matter. Maybe conceptually you will be able to run some kind of open operating system with your own code, but it will be unable to access software or services provided by corporate or governmental entities. This has been obvious for some time, and as soon as passkeys started popping up the endgame became clear. Pleading to the government definitely can't save us now though, because they want t…

> as soon as passkeys started popping up the endgame became clear That's why I'm 100% against passkeys. I'll never use them and I'll make sure nobody I know does. They're just a lock-in mechanism.

Do you recommend a password manager to everyone you know? What's the adoption rate?
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