Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

hugotunius.se

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 1001 posts

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#271

Post by bruce511 »

jonahx wrote: post #241
fastaguy88 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really not a libertarian, but why shouldn’t Netflix have the right to choose who they distribute content to? They negotiated conditions with the creators, why shouldn’t they be able to specify the DRM? No one is forcing you to subscribe to Netflix. Or even to buy an iPad.

The issue is the means of enforcement requires taking away other rights they shouldn't be able to. What if I want to require (for anti-piracy reasons) that to use my software you must also give me complete access to your computer, all the data on it, and all your communications. You might say, "Well, if anyone is stupid enough to make that deal, let them." But it's easy to sugar coat what you're doing, especially wit…

Forgive me, but is Netflix asking for that?

As I understand it, Netflix wishes to authenticate the device, and DRM their content. I'm not aware of anything beyond that (but I'm also not paying attention. )

Now you may have used the example of what might happen, but then Netfix seems a strange example. Surely Apple and/or Google are more likely players in that example?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#272

Post by nine_k »

kibwen wrote: post #224
JeremyNT wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the crux of the matter. Maybe conceptually you will be able to run some kind of open operating system with your own code, but it will be unable to access software or services provided by corporate or governmental entities. This has been obvious for some time, and as soon as passkeys started popping up the endgame became clear. Pleading to the government definitely can't save us now though, because they want t…

> Maybe conceptually you will be able to run some kind of open operating system with your own code Why do you think they would even allow this? If you think that governments don't have the incentives or the means to criminalize running non-approved OSes, or the unauthorized use of non-approved hardware, you're insufficiently cynical.

It's hard to enforce, and not dangerous enough. Accessing something serious from this unapproved code is the opposite, and is being locked down. Try running your own code on your phone's baseband processor, or boot your own OS with Secure Boot on.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#273

Post by protocolture »

idle_zealot wrote: post #4

This makes the point that the real battle we should be fighting is not for control of Android/iOS, but the ability to run other operating systems on phones. That would be great, but as the author acknowledges, building those alternatives is basically impossible. Even assuming that building a solid alternative is feasible, though, I don't think their point stands. Generally I'm not keen on legislatively forcing a deve…

> let's be real: Google and Apple have more power than most nations.

Lets be real, they do not have more power than any nations. They have a lot of power in a few tiny silos that happen to make up like 90% of the mental space of a lot of terminally online folk.

Heck they probably have less power than Coca Cola or Pepsi did during the Cola wars, or United Fruit Company at its height.

Wake me up when Apple rolls a tank into red square or Google does anything but complain about national security legislation it then goes and assertively complies with.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#274

Post by noisy_boy »

breve wrote: post #201

Start with buying the right hardware. Fairphone offers more control over the hardware: https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/104924762388... https://www.fairphone.com/

I feel like such initiatives miss one obvious target - the well heeled tech savvy user (who quite often is also privacy minded) and wants the latest. At the price point they are selling a Snapdragon 7 device, I can get a Snapdragon 8 Elite phone from the market quite easily. Now I am happy to pay more because of what they stand for but I don't see them selling a model that features the latest and greatest + the privacy focus. Surely the latest hardware and privacy/environmental responsibility are not mutually exclusive. I change my phone every 4-5 years on average so I try to not contribute to the landfills but I do want the latest when I buy.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#275

Post by vbezhenar »

idle_zealot wrote: post #4

This makes the point that the real battle we should be fighting is not for control of Android/iOS, but the ability to run other operating systems on phones. That would be great, but as the author acknowledges, building those alternatives is basically impossible. Even assuming that building a solid alternative is feasible, though, I don't think their point stands. Generally I'm not keen on legislatively forcing a deve…

> ability to run other operating systems on phones

> building those alternatives is basically impossible

For smart people it is not impossible. Just few years ago, few folks wrote complicated drivers for completely closed hardware, and I'm talking about M1 Macbook.

Google Pixel, on the other hand, was pretty open until very recently. I might be wrong about specifics, but I'm pretty sure that most of software was open, so you could just look at the kernel sources in the readable C to look for anything. You can literally build this kernel and run linux userspace and go from there to any lengths of development. Or you can build alternative systems, looking at driver sources.

I don't understand why mobile systems do not attract OS builders.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#276

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #109
idle_zealot wrote: post #4

This makes the point that the real battle we should be fighting is not for control of Android/iOS, but the ability to run other operating systems on phones. That would be great, but as the author acknowledges, building those alternatives is basically impossible. Even assuming that building a solid alternative is feasible, though, I don't think their point stands. Generally I'm not keen on legislatively forcing a deve…

"This makes the point that the real battle we should be fighting is not for control of Android/iOS, but the ability to run other operating systems on phones." Sometimes owner control, cf. corporate control, can be had by sacrificing hardware functionality, i.e., features, closed source drivers. Choice between particular hardware feature(s) working and control over the hardware in general.

Have at least two phones. One with corporate OS for banking, commerce. Another with user-chosen OS for experimentation, able to boot from external media.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#277

Post by nine_k »

pishpash wrote: post #223
JeremyNT wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the crux of the matter. Maybe conceptually you will be able to run some kind of open operating system with your own code, but it will be unable to access software or services provided by corporate or governmental entities. This has been obvious for some time, and as soon as passkeys started popping up the endgame became clear. Pleading to the government definitely can't save us now though, because they want t…

Should have made open-source components in some key nodes of the ecosystem popular and profitable. But that was a tall order.

Open-source software permeates the Internet infrastructure. Netflix is one of the biggest contributors to FreeBSD code. Tons of TVs run OSS-based stack.

But once it touches the money-extraction path, like DRM, things expectedly lock up.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#278

Post by ozgrakkurt »

josephg wrote: post #260
zmmmmm wrote: post #165

> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your o…

My parents are getting old and they aren't tech savvy. The missing piece here is that I want my parents to have a computer they can safely do their banking on, without leaving them vulnerable to scams and viruses and the like. I like that they have iphones. Doing internet banking on their phone is safer than doing it on their desktop computer. Why is that? The reason is that the desktop PC security model is deeply fl…

What are the stats here, this sounds like pure bs to be honest.

Main way people around me get scammed by far like 90% is social engineering

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#279

Post by quaintdev »

nuker wrote: post #269
josephg wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents are getting old and they aren't tech savvy. The missing piece here is that I want my parents to have a computer they can safely do their banking on, without leaving them vulnerable to scams and viruses and the like. I like that they have iphones. Doing internet banking on their phone is safer than doing it on their desktop computer. Why is that? The reason is that the desktop PC security model is deeply fl…

> My parents are getting old and they aren't tech savvy. The missing piece here is that I want my parents to have a computer they can safely do their banking on, without leaving them vulnerable to scams and viruses and the like. Purists always forget this point :) What is best for 99% of people. And dumb Euro bureaucrats.

Why not give people the freedom to choose what they want

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#280

Post by School-Cotton »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #144

You already have that ability, afaik there is nothing stopping you or your friends from loading and running whatever software you want except your own technical ability. If you want the government to force other people to do the work to let you have your cake and eat it too, I can't support that.

iPhones have a locked bootloader; it is impossible to run an OS not signed by Apple unless you find an exploit.
Post reply on HN