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Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

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Re: Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

#21

Post by d_sem »

andrewflnr wrote: post #18
bdunks wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read Isaac Asimov’s foundation series a few years ago (side note for anyone who hasn’t read it: it still holds up incredibly well with a small suspension of disbelief and some grace for when it was written). In the preface to the 4th or 5th book (which were written 30+ years after the “original” trilogy) he discussed how the originals parts of the trilogy were published as a set of short stories in a SciFi publicat…

Weird. I bounced off Foundation immediately because it felt like a series of short stories instead of a novel (and also I couldn't take psychohistory the least bit seriously). I'm kind of kicking myself for not predicting that it actually did start that way.

New information that challenges one's context can often appear weird at first. Its a common reaction.

Regarding psychohistory: It's worth considering the era in which the books where written. The 1st half of the 20th century saw massive innovations in economic theory, physics, and information theory. It was not a big leap to predict that in 500 years time, humans would further advance macro economics. Personally I felt the books did a great job setting limits in the capabilities of the theory, and using its inherit flaws to drive interesting plot lines.

Re: Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

#22

Post by throw245433 »

lqet wrote: post #2

> It was the Victorian novel that made the chapter seem natural. Key to the reality effects of nineteenth-century British fiction is its synchronisation of novel time with the natural rhythms of life. As a result, novelistic chapters lose their theatrics, their posturing and posing, even those unstable amalgamations surveyed in Equiano and Goethe, and instead become regular and ‘tacit’, receding into the background.…

Also, I know "Journey to the West" had chapters and I'm sure other cultures books had chapters too.

With all the colonization and cultural exchange going on during that period, they should've been familiar with it.

Re: Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

#23

Post by esperent »

bdunks wrote: post #4
lqet wrote: post #2

> It was the Victorian novel that made the chapter seem natural. Key to the reality effects of nineteenth-century British fiction is its synchronisation of novel time with the natural rhythms of life. As a result, novelistic chapters lose their theatrics, their posturing and posing, even those unstable amalgamations surveyed in Equiano and Goethe, and instead become regular and ‘tacit’, receding into the background.…

I read Isaac Asimov’s foundation series a few years ago (side note for anyone who hasn’t read it: it still holds up incredibly well with a small suspension of disbelief and some grace for when it was written). In the preface to the 4th or 5th book (which were written 30+ years after the “original” trilogy) he discussed how the originals parts of the trilogy were published as a set of short stories in a SciFi publicat…

> some grace for when it was written

I reread it last year and I needed to give it a lot of grace, mostly from it's treatment of women. To Asimov's credit, there's no overt sexism - he manages to bypass that by having almost no female characters at all. There's a single female character who has no agency, every other character is white and male. I understand it's a product of it's time, and avoid judgment. However, the lack of women feels weird and makes it hard to enjoy.

To be fair, the later books in the series which were written in the 70s are much better in this regard.

Re: Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

#24

Post by lostlogin »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #11
lopsotronic wrote: post #10

If you've ever waded hip deep into publication technology, you can see how the 2nd CE heading has moved down, down, down, down all the way to the individual word level, in something like a DITA `conref` where the individual word is a reference. Even though DITA pays my checks, I've always been apprehensive about functionality like `conref`[1] in a general-purpose document. You can only fuss with natural language for…

I like the verses. How else could I deep-link to a total banger line like Matthew 25:40?

What is the protocol by which the judge will evaluate us?

Re: Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

#25

Post by novosel »

lqet wrote: post #2

> It was the Victorian novel that made the chapter seem natural. Key to the reality effects of nineteenth-century British fiction is its synchronisation of novel time with the natural rhythms of life. As a result, novelistic chapters lose their theatrics, their posturing and posing, even those unstable amalgamations surveyed in Equiano and Goethe, and instead become regular and ‘tacit’, receding into the background.…

And hence, Dickensian invention of cliffhanger at the end of installment. Narrative push and pull that you can feel when you read it in a book.

Re: Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

#26

Post by dotancohen »

lqet wrote: post #2

> It was the Victorian novel that made the chapter seem natural. Key to the reality effects of nineteenth-century British fiction is its synchronisation of novel time with the natural rhythms of life. As a result, novelistic chapters lose their theatrics, their posturing and posing, even those unstable amalgamations surveyed in Equiano and Goethe, and instead become regular and ‘tacit’, receding into the background.…

I did not learn writing formally, and I do not publish what I write. But I do write a lot, mostly fiction to express the things that happen to myself in a controlled environment.

I tried not writing in chapters, but I find that the chapters helped me compartmentalize different times and places and specific subjects. It may be that I'm simply used to chapters from reading other books, but no matter what the book I find that some sort of compartmentalization is beneficial and often necessary.

Re: Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

#27

Post by dotancohen »

esperent wrote: post #23
bdunks wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read Isaac Asimov’s foundation series a few years ago (side note for anyone who hasn’t read it: it still holds up incredibly well with a small suspension of disbelief and some grace for when it was written). In the preface to the 4th or 5th book (which were written 30+ years after the “original” trilogy) he discussed how the originals parts of the trilogy were published as a set of short stories in a SciFi publicat…

> some grace for when it was written I reread it last year and I needed to give it a lot of grace, mostly from it's treatment of women. To Asimov's credit, there's no overt sexism - he manages to bypass that by having almost no female characters at all. There's a single female character who has no agency, every other character is white and male. I understand it's a product of it's time, and avoid judgment. However, t…

  > there's no overt sexism - he manages to bypass that by having almost no female characters at all.
That is true for much of classical literature, going all the way back to the Greeks.

Re: Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

#28

Post by madaxe_again »

dotancohen wrote: post #26
lqet wrote: post #2

> It was the Victorian novel that made the chapter seem natural. Key to the reality effects of nineteenth-century British fiction is its synchronisation of novel time with the natural rhythms of life. As a result, novelistic chapters lose their theatrics, their posturing and posing, even those unstable amalgamations surveyed in Equiano and Goethe, and instead become regular and ‘tacit’, receding into the background.…

I did not learn writing formally, and I do not publish what I write. But I do write a lot, mostly fiction to express the things that happen to myself in a controlled environment. I tried not writing in chapters, but I find that the chapters helped me compartmentalize different times and places and specific subjects. It may be that I'm simply used to chapters from reading other books, but no matter what the book I fin…

If you eschew chapters, it can have a pretty distinctive effect on your prose. Prominent examples that come to mind are Finnegan’s Wake, The Waves, and On The Road, and all make for an intense read. The absence of pause gives you no place to put it down, you are ensnared within the inescapable flow.

Seems to fit stream of consciousness stuff better.

Although this does remind me of sitting on a plane as a kid with finnegan’s wake, and an older American leans over and reassures me that I’ll be able to move on to “chapter books” soon. To this day I remain unsure if he was being ironic or if he thought I was reading “Spot The Dog”.

Re: Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

#29

Post by dotancohen »

madaxe_again wrote: post #28
dotancohen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not learn writing formally, and I do not publish what I write. But I do write a lot, mostly fiction to express the things that happen to myself in a controlled environment. I tried not writing in chapters, but I find that the chapters helped me compartmentalize different times and places and specific subjects. It may be that I'm simply used to chapters from reading other books, but no matter what the book I fin…

If you eschew chapters, it can have a pretty distinctive effect on your prose. Prominent examples that come to mind are Finnegan’s Wake, The Waves, and On The Road, and all make for an intense read. The absence of pause gives you no place to put it down, you are ensnared within the inescapable flow. Seems to fit stream of consciousness stuff better. Although this does remind me of sitting on a plane as a kid with fin…

I've definitely experimented with different forms of compartmentalization, none of them to my satisfaction. I'm certain that a skilled writer could do something, but I couldn't.

Re: Why did books start being divided into chapters? A new history

#30

Post by spc476 »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #11
lopsotronic wrote: post #10

If you've ever waded hip deep into publication technology, you can see how the 2nd CE heading has moved down, down, down, down all the way to the individual word level, in something like a DITA `conref` where the individual word is a reference. Even though DITA pays my checks, I've always been apprehensive about functionality like `conref`[1] in a general-purpose document. You can only fuss with natural language for…

I like the verses. How else could I deep-link to a total banger line like Matthew 25:40?

By using the web? https://bible.conman.org/kj/Matthew.25:40
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