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A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

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Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#211

Post by tremon »

pbmonster wrote: post #66
fweimer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existing giro system is the real Paypal competitor. Most Europeans had access to Paypal-style money transfers before they had email. Merchants probably want to rely on another party to maintain their integration, but there is no real need for another centralized service similar to Paypal. (The U.S. really is an outlier among developed nations in that its giro system is not widely used, and many residents would no…

> The existing giro system is the real Paypal competitor. Most Europeans had access to Paypal-style money transfers before they had email. Not at all, not even close! In most cases, that's wrong even today. Want to sell something online? A book you wrote, a game you made? There's no way for people to pay you via giro and automatically receiving the good on the page where the payment process was initiated. Giro is not…

Giro was nice 15 years ago

What giro system are you talking about here? Do you mean the postal giro system that has existed in Europe since the 1960s and has been used for postorder shopping since before the Internet existed? That system was already obsolete in NL last century when we had the first digital invoicing systems via e-mail (and digital personal banking via dial-up), and we've had direct online payments via iDeal since 2005. Are you saying that some countries are still relying on paper-based payment instructions in 2025?

I don't know a single bank that offers an "address book" in their online banking app/website.

Conversely, I don't know a single online banking portal that does NOT offer such basic functionality. Santander, ING, and Rabobank all do.

And because the system comes with a degree of anonymity

What do you mean? Every payment in my bank's transaction history shows the account number on the other end of the transfer.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#212

Post by tpurves »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #130
tpurves wrote: post #75

Arbitraging fraud has always been PayPal's game. For the mass market of small-scale sellers there's a threshold, whre the cost of onboarding, verifying, underwriting and eating fraud exposure is greater than the revenues you could ever expect to make from them at their low volume. So these segments went un-served, same with many other segments of transactions or transactors. PayPal's model has always been to accept a…

Maybe it's different by country, but I feel like fraud isn't a huge issue for the end user anymore. A couple times I've had random transactions on my account seemingly from database leaks / stolen card details, and every time the bank has either sent me a notification asking me to approve the suspicious transaction, or has refunded me the amount later. As long as you don't initiate the transaction, you get your money…

Card networks have the most reliable protections and guarantees, their systems and rules are designed around consumer trust in their brand and zero-liability (to consumers).

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#213

Post by tpm »

cubefox wrote: post #120
tpm wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the Wero page, it's not very European if 4 countries are listed. I have never heard of it here in Slovakia, and none of our banks are listed, although some belong to the groups that are there. This will be a long process if it really wants to be European.

Maybe in Slovakia there is already an established payment system which uses instant bank transfers, so there is no need for Wero. Or maybe some countries are fine with PayPal (or similar) fees.

There isn't, people mostly pay by card or cash/card on delivery. Instant transfers started being an option but I don't think it's widely used.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#214

Post by Xss3 »

adrr wrote: post #147
SchemaLoad wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I'd like to see a move away from just giving your card details to a website and having them charge it for whatever they want. Because it just ends up that stolen details go around and get used for fraud easily. Should be moving to a system where setting up payments with a new provider has them request access to charge you, and then on the bank app you approve it. Australia has this as a fairly new system c…

99% of e-commerce merchants don't have hand the credit card informations. Its all passed on the front side by payment providers like Stripe or Braintree. Shopify merchants go further with a hosted payment page. Handling card numbers bring on a lot regulations for PCI.

Verifying they arent capturing input is difficult even if they use a processor.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#215

Post by tharkun__ »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #165
dod9er wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is great that they are forced to show whats going one. Otherwise we wouldnt even discuss, just no one would care.

Forced to show is better than going behind my back. But making me click an "accept" button is just dirty. I hate that.

Nobody is making you. You are given a choice.

This company needs to get paid. For that it uses ads and other means, just like everyone else does. Their list of ads, tracking and other partners happens to be around 200. They tell you and you either choose to accept that, read their content for "free" (like you use other content/apps for "free") or actually choose to say "No, if "free" costs me this, then I don't want it".

And some really aren't even to "sell your data" but just their own analytics to let their dev/SRE staff see what's going on. Nothing nefarious at all.

Nobody forces you to accept this and read their content.

Heck, your online banking/brokerage probably uses a bunch of trackers you probably aren't aware of, because they don't tell you. Go open the network tab in dev tools and check.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#216

Post by selinkocalar »

This is exactly why compliance frameworks exist. When your security controls fail, it doesn't just affect you - it ripples through every organization that trusts you. German banks are right to be concerned. PayPal processes massive amounts of financial data, and if their security posture is compromised, everyone downstream is at risk. The real test of any security program isn't whether incidents happen - it's how quickly you detect them, contain them, and communicate with affected parties.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#217

Post by Dylan16807 »

tharkun__ wrote: post #215
Dylan16807 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced to show is better than going behind my back. But making me click an "accept" button is just dirty. I hate that.

Nobody is making you. You are given a choice. This company needs to get paid. For that it uses ads and other means, just like everyone else does. Their list of ads, tracking and other partners happens to be around 200. They tell you and you either choose to accept that, read their content for "free" (like you use other content/apps for "free") or actually choose to say "No, if "free" costs me this, then I don't want…

Yeah I know I could leave. But if the site won't let me say no, then it shouldn't pretend to give me an option.

If they're acting like the GDPR applies, these choices are invalid. If they're not extending that courtesy, then I'd rather be left alone about it.

And they're allowed to have ads without getting consent. It's the tracking that's a problem.

And there's no chance in hell that data isn't being sold when there are hundreds of partners.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#218

Post by tinodb »

tharkun__ wrote: post #215
Dylan16807 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced to show is better than going behind my back. But making me click an "accept" button is just dirty. I hate that.

Nobody is making you. You are given a choice. This company needs to get paid. For that it uses ads and other means, just like everyone else does. Their list of ads, tracking and other partners happens to be around 200. They tell you and you either choose to accept that, read their content for "free" (like you use other content/apps for "free") or actually choose to say "No, if "free" costs me this, then I don't want…

No, the GDPR is making _them_. Gating content behind "consent" for tracking isn't allowed. They have the choice to then show content with generic trackers.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#219

Post by freejazz »

calmbonsai wrote: post #44
freejazz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't the fraud, the problem is that they do not pay enough staff to deal with it which leads to legitimate accounts getting closed out and people not being able to do anything about it. Money seized, etc.

Amen.

It's a constant theme with these internet companies. Oh Facebook is too big to police child predation on their platform? Am I supposed to be sorry about that? Whose fault could it be besides Facebook? They built it, the people came. Imagine running a Toys 'r' Us and telling parents that its not the store's fault that child predators loom in every corner... the notion that these business should not be held liable because of the principle that it would prevent them from scaling is an abomination on society.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#220

Post by mastermage »

qznc wrote: post #196
mastermage wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wero is actually built to sunset Giro in the EU. Its built on top of Giro as to leverage the well working network but gives more convenience.

This is the first time I hear of „sunset“. Afaik it just is a layer on top and that’s it.

It's in the first paragraph on Wikipedia. Although I know that Wikipedia isn't always 100% correct so take that with a grain of salt.

Quote: "Wero is a European mobile payment system that is intended to replace Giropay in Germany, Paylib in France,[1] Payconiq in Belgium[2] and Luxembourg, and iDEAL in the Netherlands."

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