11–20 of 43 posts
I really wish Pydantic invested in... Pydantic, instead of some AI API wrapper garbage. I've been using it a lot lately and anything beyond basic usage is an absolute chore.
These abstractions are nice to not get locked in with one llm provider - but like with langchain - once you use some more niche feature the bugs do shine through. I tried it out with structured output for azure openai but had to give up since somewhere somewhat was broken and it's difficult to figure out if it's the abstraction or the library of the llm provider which the abstraction uses. Nevertheless i would strong…
The vast majority of bugs we encounter are not in Pydantic AI itself but rather in having to deal with supposedly OpenAI Chat Completions-compatible APIs that aren't really, and with local models ran through e.g. Ollama or vLLM that tend to not be the best at tool calling.
The big three model providers (OpenAI, Claude, Gemini) and enterprise platforms (Bedrock, Vertex, Azure) see the vast majority of usage and our support for them is very stable. It remains a challenge to keep up with their pace of shipping new features and models, but thanks to our 200+ contributors we're usually not far behind the bleeding edge in terms of LLM API feature coverage, and as you may have seen we're very responsive to issues and PRs on GitHub, and questions on Slack.
These abstractions are nice to not get locked in with one llm provider - but like with langchain - once you use some more niche feature the bugs do shine through. I tried it out with structured output for azure openai but had to give up since somewhere somewhat was broken and it's difficult to figure out if it's the abstraction or the library of the llm provider which the abstraction uses. Nevertheless i would strong…
In this example, you get locked into pydantic_ai, another proprietary provider.
We do have a proprietary observability and evals product Pydantic Logfire (https://pydantic.dev/logfire), but Pydantic AI works with other observability tools as well, and Logfire works with other agent frameworks.
Pydantic-AI is lovely - I've been working on a forever, fun project to build a coding agent CLI for a year plus now. IMO it does make constructing any given agent very easy, though the lower level APIs are a little painful to use but they seem to be aware of that. https://github.com/caesarnine/rune-code Part of the reason I switched to it initially wasn't so much it's niceties versus just being disgusted at how poor…
I had the opposite experience. I liked the niceties of Pydantic AI, but had trouble with it that I found difficult to deal with. For example, some of the models wouldn't stream, but the OpenAI models did. It took months to resolve, and well before that I switched to LiteLLM and just hand-rolled the agentic logic stuff. LiteLLM's docs were simple and everything worked as expected. The agentic code is simple enough tha…
I really wish Pydantic invested in... Pydantic, instead of some AI API wrapper garbage. I've been using it a lot lately and anything beyond basic usage is an absolute chore.
Pydantic still sees multiple commits per week, which is less than it was at one point, but I'd say that's a sign of its maturity and stability more than a lack of attention.
I haven't looked deeply into pydantic's implementation but this might be related to tool-usage vs completion [0], the backend LLM model, etc. All I know is that with the same LLM models, `openai.client.chat.completions` + a custom prompt to pass in the pydantic JSON schema + post-processing to instantiate SomePydanticModel(*json) creates objects successfully whereas vanilla pydantic-ai rarely does, regardless of the number of retries.
I went with what works in my code, but didn't remove the pydantic-ai dependency completely because I'm hoping something changes. I'd say that getting dynamic prompt context by leveraging JSON schemas, model-and-field docs from pydantic, plus maybe other results from runtime-inspection (like the actual source-code) is obviously a very good idea. Many people want something like "fuzzy compilers" with structured output, not magical oracles that might return anything.
Documentation is context, and even very fuzzy context is becoming a force multiplier. Similarly languages/frameworks with good support for runtime-inspection/reflection and have an ecosystem with strong tools for things like ASTs really should be the best things to pair with AI and agents.
I really wish Pydantic invested in... Pydantic, instead of some AI API wrapper garbage. I've been using it a lot lately and anything beyond basic usage is an absolute chore.
I wish Python would improve to bridge the gaps between pydantic and dataclasses, so that we don't have to rely on pydantic. It's too foundational a piece to not be part of the core python anymore
I wanted to love pydantic AI as much as I love pydantic but the killer feature is pydantic-model-completion and weirdly.. it has always seemed to work better for me when I naively build it from scratch without pydantic AI. I haven't looked deeply into pydantic's implementation but this might be related to tool-usage vs completion [0], the backend LLM model, etc. All I know is that with the same LLM models, `openai.cl…
That's very odd, would you mind sharing the Pydantic model / schema so I can have a look? (I'm a maintainer) What you're doing with a custom prompt that includes the schema sounds like our Prompted output mode (https://ai.pydantic.dev/output/#prompted-output), but you should get better performance still with the Native or Tool output modes (https://ai.pydantic.dev/output/#native-output, https://ai.pydantic.dev/output/#tool-output) which leverage the APIs' native strict JSON schema enforcement.
"AI" and vibe coding fits very well into that list.
I wanted to love pydantic AI as much as I love pydantic but the killer feature is pydantic-model-completion and weirdly.. it has always seemed to work better for me when I naively build it from scratch without pydantic AI. I haven't looked deeply into pydantic's implementation but this might be related to tool-usage vs completion [0], the backend LLM model, etc. All I know is that with the same LLM models, `openai.cl…
> All I know is that with the same LLM models, `openai.client.chat.completions` + a custom prompt to pass in the pydantic JSON schema + post-processing to instantiate SomePydanticModel(*json) creates objects successfully whereas vanilla pydantic-ai rarely does, regardless of the number of retries. That's very odd, would you mind sharing the Pydantic model / schema so I can have a look? (I'm a maintainer) What you're…
One thing I can say though.. my models differ from the docs examples mostly in that they are not "flat" with simple top-level data structures. They have lots of nested models-as-fields.