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Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

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Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#61

Post by mhurron »

exDM69 wrote: post #56
sliverstorm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've still got a desk computer which runs linux, regardless the WM you've still got a desktop linux box. "Linux on the desktop" doesn't use "desktop" in the sense by which we refer to the place that contains "My Computer" and "Recycle Bin". No, "desktop" refers to "on the top of your desk".

> If you've still got a desk computer which runs linux, regardless the WM you've still got a desktop linux box. Semantics. I prefer to call it a personal unix workstation :) I have a similar software setup on my laptop, which you can't call a "desktop". We can call it a portable unix workstation then.

Actually yes, the phrase 'Linux on the Desktop' does include laptops. 'Linux on the Desktop' sounds like a better rallying cry then 'Everyone using Linux directly'.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#62

Post by DeepDuh »

manamana wrote: post #60
DeepDuh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the screenshot it looks like an OSX clone to the point. It seems like the UI designer switched to 2d-dock, inverted the colors, replaced the apple with an 'e' and called it a day. Not that this is bad per se though. Edit: They even pretty much copied the icons for browser, address book and dictionary.

The browser icon has changed since: http://elementaryos.org/journal/new-midori-icon-elementary

Oh so instead copying Safari's logo they now copy Firefox? http://elementaryos.org/sites/default/files/user/5/midori.pn...

Elementary might have something going on for them but originality is not it apparently.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#63

Post by aerique »

sliverstorm wrote: post #20
willholloway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I'm working with more than three or four windows (which is common) I've basically got my active window and a stack of non-active, tiny, non-useable windows. In other words, it becomes difficult to combine even a medium-size set of windows with a usage model wherein I wish to interact with 2-3 windows simultaneously. This is my biggest issue as well. I would like a way to hide these windows and take them out of m…

I feel like a tiling WM could really benefit from a taskbar-like metaphor. It doesn't have to be precisely a taskbar, but the ability to make this or that application completely invisible without sending it to another virtual desktop is often useful. Perhaps, to stay in keeping with the ability to do everything from the keyboard, treat the "taskbar" like a second stack, only reduced to names instead of shrunken windo…

Check out i3. It can do what you want (if I get what you're writing).

I never liked tiling window managers using the master-slave paradigm (like xmonad does) precisely because of the problems you both described.

http://i3wm.org/screenshots/ (check the screencast and skip to 2:55 for examples of the different layouts)

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#64

Post by manamana »

DeepDuh wrote: post #62
manamana wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The browser icon has changed since: http://elementaryos.org/journal/new-midori-icon-elementary

Oh so instead copying Safari's logo they now copy Firefox? http://elementaryos.org/sites/default/files/user/5/midori.pn... Elementary might have something going on for them but originality is not it apparently.

The new icon solves the problem of being yet another thing people will point at and say they were just copying Apple. It might not be totally original, but that's okay, everyone borrows from everyone, and I don't think they will get any flak just because it somewhat resembles Firefox.

The problem arises when you can trace so many ideas back to a single source that it makes it look like you're just making a cheap copy, which sadly is what is happening with elementary.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#65

Post by hollerith »

drblast wrote: post #50

It's fascinating to watch people totally underestimate the lock Microsoft has on the corporate computing environment. This article suggests that it would be easier to break into the business/enterprise desktop than it would be to sell to consumers. It's probably just about the opposite. Linux is many years away from the level of plug-it-in-and-forget-it integration that Windows has. Linux is light years away from hav…

You make some valid points, but you try to push your thesis too far.

>the consumer space is the only possible bet

Below is a link to a discussion we had here 2 weeks ago about Ubuntu at Google. Although engineers at Google can choose a different one, Ubuntu is the desktop OS with the most support from Google's "IT department". In contrast, Windows is the only choice that requires some sort of approval from management.

Also, although it is a paying customer for Canonical's Ubuntu Advantage support program, Google is not even Canonical's largest business desktop customer.

As long as we do not have unrealistic aspirations of completely replacing Windows in the enterprise, why not try to expand on the presence desktop Linux already has there?

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4452005

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#66

Post by gman99 »

willholloway wrote: post #28
ekianjo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not Linux. Android. It's NOT the same thing. At all.

I have busybox and bash on my android phone, how is it not the same at all? That's why they call it GNU/Linux. Linux is the kernel, and GNU a set of tools and libraries. Right now Android has the Linux part, and the GNU part is increasingly available.

Not that I disagree, but X11 would be nice. Damn I miss my N900/N9....

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#67

Post by hollerith »

exDM69 wrote: post #56
sliverstorm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've still got a desk computer which runs linux, regardless the WM you've still got a desktop linux box. "Linux on the desktop" doesn't use "desktop" in the sense by which we refer to the place that contains "My Computer" and "Recycle Bin". No, "desktop" refers to "on the top of your desk".

> If you've still got a desk computer which runs linux, regardless the WM you've still got a desktop linux box. Semantics. I prefer to call it a personal unix workstation :) I have a similar software setup on my laptop, which you can't call a "desktop". We can call it a portable unix workstation then.

>I have a similar software setup on my laptop, which you can't call a "desktop".

According to the standard terminology used by most writers in the computer industry last 5 years, yes you can (when applied to software).

In contrast, if you say, "After using a desktop linux box for about 15 years, I have moved on," most readers are going to be misled into concluding that you've switched to OS X or Windows. (We only got what you actually meant because we were paying sufficient attention and because you went on to talk of tiling windowing and a keyboard oriented user experience, which are not really an option on OS X and Windows.)

P.S. In all the discussion about tablet computer, you really never noticed any of the thousands of authors using "desktop OS" to refer to the more-traditional kind of OS that runs on both desktop computers and laptop computers?

And you never noticed authors using "desktop" to distinguish a user-facing computer from a server?

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#68

Post by shmerl »

josteink wrote: post #49
shmerl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UI unfamiliarity is not equal to the lack of functionality in the program itself. Comfortable feeling about UI is also a subjective matter to a degree, so what works well for some is irritating for others.

Sure. That is a factor. But the reason Microsoft moved from the safe (familiar) UI to the new one was because they realized the old UI-model didn't scale well with expanded functionality. They decided to try to improve the user experience by leaving behind what clearly did not work. For a company which owes most of its legacy to users preferring familiarity, that's very much not a small thing. But they decided it had…

I think they care, but they have their constraints. They'd rather polish and add important functionality first, rather than radically redo the whole design. After the LibreOffice / OpenOffice split it's still probably not at the point of such step. But I'm sure at some point they'll address it.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#69

Post by shmerl »

takluyver wrote: post #57
eckyptang wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, reinforcing my position before I say something good about Microsoft: I am a Linux user and have been for 15 years. Before that, it was Solaris and HP/UX. I do a fair bit of work with Windows, particularly .Net at the moment. I'm pretty much neutral. It's a box that does a job. I don't get these arguments: the user has the option. In the UK, there are magazines on every shelf in every newsagent pushing Linux…

> In the UK, there are magazines on every shelf in every newsagent pushing Linux and in every PC related stored they are pretty much giving Ubuntu away (yes they even had a box at the checkout in PC World with free CDs - completely untouched). You can buy PC's with it preinstalled and buy PCs with no operating system so you can install it. Is this the same UK I live in? The newsagents I see might have one Linux magaz…

>Many people have heard of it, certainly, but they often have some vague idea that it's a command-line interface for ultra nerdy experts. That's why Android and Ubuntu both avoid using the word 'Linux' in their public branding.

That actually is a lack of gratitude and failure to improve Linux image on their part. But I agree with the rest of the above. Removing the bundling won't magically solve all issues, but it's a huge blocker which prevents any kind of solutions from reaching the broader audience.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#70

Post by shmerl »

eckyptang wrote: post #51
shmerl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that windows is good enough for the end users and represents good value? Same as Linux in this day and age (if user has such option). The reason no market share destroying competition has appeared is that people are quite happy apart from a minority of users who are quite vocal. With this logic any kind of monopoly can be justified, but it doesn't make monopoly good per se. Artificial lack of comp…

Firstly, reinforcing my position before I say something good about Microsoft: I am a Linux user and have been for 15 years. Before that, it was Solaris and HP/UX. I do a fair bit of work with Windows, particularly .Net at the moment. I'm pretty much neutral. It's a box that does a job. I don't get these arguments: the user has the option. In the UK, there are magazines on every shelf in every newsagent pushing Linux…

> You can buy PC's with it preinstalled and buy PCs with no operating system so you can install it.

This sounds like a fairy tale, given how many problems people have with claiming the Windows refund alone, let alone getting alternative OSes preinstalled. And no OS option? Virtually non existent, except may be for corporate customers and servers.

> I don't think Microsoft is a monopoly

They formally avoid antitrust regulations by delegating the refund to OEMs (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund), but it doesn't change the factual situation - Windows is bundled practically by all major OEMs, and you hardly can find an option of Linux preisntalled or no OS for those OEMs. Getting a refund for Windows is a burden which one has to fight through, do you think it's not an artificial restriction on the competition? I think it is, and it needs to be broken.

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