The way the execs talk down to employees now is really depressing to read about. That's a really unfortunate culture change since I was there.
The fish rots from the head down.
Google has eliminated 35% of managers overseeing small teams in past year
91–100 of 292 posts
Re: Google has eliminated 35% of managers overseeing small teams in past year
#92Fewer managers with fewer direct reports seems impossible. If you eliminate managers, then the remaining ones will naturally absorb the direct reports. So one of these cannot be true. Unless people don't report to anyone.
Re: Google has eliminated 35% of managers overseeing small teams in past year
#93This was called the TLM role at google. Technical Lead/Manager. You were expected to code and manage a couple of more junior engineers. It’s part of an effort to have dedicated managers and dedicated engineers instead of hybrid roles. This is being sold as an efficiency win for the sake of the stock price but it’s really just moved a few people around with the TLMs now 100% focused on programming.
GOOG has made a systemic push to eliminate the role starting ~3 years ago. At that time my M was a staff level IC TLM with 4 reports who was forcibly converted to EM. In those last 3 years I've only seen TLMs used to assist an overloaded EM. The pattern I've seen is something like: Principal EM |- Staff EM (7 reports, project A) |- Staff EM (8 reports, project B) |- Staff IC (projects A, B, C) |- Senior IC (projects…
Can someone explain the various acronyms?
Re: Google has eliminated 35% of managers overseeing small teams in past year
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
TLM roles are a trap, but not in that sense. There's no expectation that you do two jobs at once. It's just a way to ease unsuspecting engineers into management. If you don't suck at management, your team inevitably grows (or you're handed over other teams), and before long, you're managing full-time. Which means that there are three type of people who remain TLMs in the long haul: those who suck at management; those…
Usually it means you have to manage people but you have no real input on their career trajectory, and in the worst case, if they need to be fired you do not have the power to do so.
This was my experience in a TLM role - you have to manage down to your ICs but you have little lateral or upward power. You're basically just conveying whatever your manager decides to do with your team, but with all the additional responsibilities of a staff engineer.
Re: Google has eliminated 35% of managers overseeing small teams in past year
#95So what does it mean exactly, they merged a bunch of teams?
Re: Google has eliminated 35% of managers overseeing small teams in past year
#96Around 5 is the correct number for a first line manager of a technical team. Go to 10 and it’s impossible to keep track of things. The day has only so many hours. Managing takes time. For bigger teams (10+) you either need individuals who are very independent and driven, or have dependable line managers.
Around 5 is when the manager typically creates extra unnecessary work for everyone to justify his/her existence
Re: Google has eliminated 35% of managers overseeing small teams in past year
#97Next up: super frustrated ex-google PMs complaining "that's not how it's done at Google" at their new jobs.
This has been happening for over a decade
Re: Google has eliminated 35% of managers overseeing small teams in past year
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
GOOG has made a systemic push to eliminate the role starting ~3 years ago. At that time my M was a staff level IC TLM with 4 reports who was forcibly converted to EM. In those last 3 years I've only seen TLMs used to assist an overloaded EM. The pattern I've seen is something like: Principal EM |- Staff EM (7 reports, project A) |- Staff EM (8 reports, project B) |- Staff IC (projects A, B, C) |- Senior IC (projects…
Can someone explain the various acronyms?
EM = Engineering Manager
IC = Individual Contributor
Re: Google has eliminated 35% of managers overseeing small teams in past year
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
GOOG has made a systemic push to eliminate the role starting ~3 years ago. At that time my M was a staff level IC TLM with 4 reports who was forcibly converted to EM. In those last 3 years I've only seen TLMs used to assist an overloaded EM. The pattern I've seen is something like: Principal EM |- Staff EM (7 reports, project A) |- Staff EM (8 reports, project B) |- Staff IC (projects A, B, C) |- Senior IC (projects…
Can someone explain the various acronyms?
IC -- individual contributor, EM -- enginering manager, TLM -- technical lead manager
Re: Google has eliminated 35% of managers overseeing small teams in past year
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have any opinion on the success/value of the TLM role?
(personal opinion) I thought it was a nice stepping stone for people to learn management without having 10 people dumped on them. But it looked bad on paper.
10 is a lot for a first time manager, but too few reports is also bad for a new manager. 4-5 direct reports is probably the sweet spot where you actually get some experience and the team is big enough that interpersonal stuff averages out.