Earlier quoted context omitted.
The simulation hypothesis (which I’ve argued against before, btw) is a carefully constructed argument that concludes that if such simulations are possible, then we are very likely in one. That is not equivalent to creationism.
I don't really have anything to add to AnimalMuppet's response. Why are they not equivalent? Because the simulation argument is more "carefully constructed"? Is that it? Because I'm not convinced it is. Creationists have certainly put more effort into their arguments.
The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful
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Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't really have anything to add to AnimalMuppet's response. Why are they not equivalent? Because the simulation argument is more "carefully constructed"? Is that it? Because I'm not convinced it is. Creationists have certainly put more effort into their arguments.
I would counter by saying all metaphysics are useless, and unknowable.
Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't really have anything to add to AnimalMuppet's response. Why are they not equivalent? Because the simulation argument is more "carefully constructed"? Is that it? Because I'm not convinced it is. Creationists have certainly put more effort into their arguments.
Read the papers and tell me how they are identical. You made that claim. Understanding what I mean by “carefully constructed” will require that anyway. AnimalMuppets comment suggests all if A, then B arguments are equivalent; but how you show this is true is the actual argument. I’ve not seen anyone argue that creation being possible would imply creation and I’m not sure how AnimalMuppet or any creationist could poss…
What is the practical difference? If it's so obvious it should be straightforward to point it out!
Edit: let me put it more bluntly. If God had created the universe 6000 years ago and just made it seem older, how could you tell the difference from the creator of a simulation doing exactly the same thing?
Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bears most likely out-ruthless you, but, uh, I don't sed them building Dyson spheres anytime soon. Aliens probably aren't this edgy, nihilist caricature. Most likely, they're kind of like us- Curious about us, hoping for the best, but irrationally fearing we're an "highly aggressive apex" or whatever self-absorbed nightmare the less enlightened individuals of their species dreamed. Seriously, you think anyone is gonn…
At this point, I’m terrified some spacefaring AI is going to come over and relentlessly interface with whatever systems they can find while screaming “IF THIS BOT IS TROUBLING YOU PLEASE BLOCK ME AT THE PHYSICAL LEVEL” and self-replicating millions of clones.
Von Neumann spam.
Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful
#245I had a theory that it was someone walking across the field with an electronic device, like a flashlight. So I looked up the duration of the signal, size of the field, and average walking pace. It matched perfectly.
What handheld electronic devices existed in 1977? A flashlight would have been incandescent.
They probably were mostly operating around 30 mhz in the CB band or 120-150 in the Ham or aircraft bands in that era, but harmonics are a thing
Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful
#246“six millennia“ doesn’t seem that long on the scale of the universe
The claim is that humans would have to monitor for six millennia to detect a signal like this as a result of random interference/noise. The implication is that the signal is probably real, since humans have been monitoring for much less than 6000 years.
Until there is a second one, there is nothing to statistically distinguish this from random noise.
Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
Read the papers and tell me how they are identical. You made that claim. Understanding what I mean by “carefully constructed” will require that anyway. AnimalMuppets comment suggests all if A, then B arguments are equivalent; but how you show this is true is the actual argument. I’ve not seen anyone argue that creation being possible would imply creation and I’m not sure how AnimalMuppet or any creationist could poss…
What papers? Give me something solid to go on here. What is the practical difference? If it's so obvious it should be straightforward to point it out! Edit: let me put it more bluntly. If God had created the universe 6000 years ago and just made it seem older, how could you tell the difference from the creator of a simulation doing exactly the same thing?
The practical difference is that you can reason about simulation and potentially prove or disprove it. It is potentially testable (and papers have been written suggesting ways we might do so). Although the simulators would be extremely powerful from our point of view, they aren't posited to be omniscient and perfect. It is also possible to address Bostrom's arguments directly with reason. I argued that whether we are in a simulation or not, we cannot be in a Bostrom-style simulation because as I understand his argument it necessitates infinite computation and either infinite energy or infinite time; any of which, in my opinion, break his argument. I also think I could make a case that test-ability itself disproves it.
Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful
#248Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you mind expanding on your theory more?
It was after watching a documentary called "WOW Signal". The receiver they built was along the edge of a field, and it's designed to pick up extremely weak variations in electrical signals/radio waves. They go into great detail about how sensitive it is. The signal itself looks like a parabola when graphed, gaining in intensity and then falling off at the same rate. Exactly what you'd expect from someone walking acro…