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Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

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Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#71

Post by notnullorvoid »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #23

This article is full of nonsense. The Linux desktop push isn't failing because it has experiences and apps that are similar to Windows and macOS. Being able to run Windows apps on Linux is a benefit, not a failure. As for religious wars over init systems, desktop environments and package managers, competition is making the options stronger, not weaker. Competition is a reason why package management on Linux is far be…

Even more so users don't care about what kernel their OS is running, nor do they even know what a kernel is.

It's entirely possible for a large enough brand to ship a Linux based desktop OS to mass adoption. It has already been done once with ChromeOS.

Linux will never be the name users remember, and it's not meant to be.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#72

Post by prerok »

bee_rider wrote: post #47

This desire for “year of Linux on the desktop” is always attributed to “Linux lovers,” and other nebulous fan voices. This article uses the word “win,” but as far as I can see the prize they are looking for is… a lot of additional non-technical desktop users? Why? What’s the goal here that actually benefits Linux or broader open source development?

Well, that's a good point. Why?

I think one of the reasons is that if you think it's better and see how other users are struggling with all the bs these companies are throwing at them, it's only natural that you would suggest what works for you.

There is also another reason, though, and this is more on a platform level, i.e. think globally, act locally. If more users are on Linux then companies will start to target it as a platform that requires first class support. So, then, even if payable, we would also get native Linux apps for enterprise. This would be a win.

As it stands, Steam was the big push but we need more companies to adopt this approach. Don't get me wrong, even wine was amazing, but Proton is such an easier experience that makes it all a breeze.

So, why? In the long run, it will be a better experience for all of us, Linux native users.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#73

Post by x0x0 »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #70
x0x0 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux becoming better than Windows to run games is the sort of thing that should actually scare Microsoft because it can lead to non-engineers installing linux because game go fast. The people spending a grand on gpus will put up with real hassles to that end.

Why would Microsoft be scared? They still own and set the future direction for the Windows APIs that those games are designed for, meaning that they're still in the driver's seat. Proton has to play an eternal game of catch up.

Given the size of the steam market, I suspect many game authors would be fine with supporting whatever runs on Steam.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#74

Post by hackeraccount »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #69
nancyminusone wrote: post #15

Linux is already winning some important battles: -no ads -no tracking -no vendor lock in -no preinstalled or unremovable crapware That's enough for me. Yes, it's not perfect, but you're simply allowed to say no.

> no preinstalled .. crapware Every distro except arch is full of preinstalled crapware. Some like OpenSuse even have preinstalled crapware bundles where stuff you uninstall comes back after update

Debian?

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#75

Post by [deleted] »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #69
nancyminusone wrote: post #15

Linux is already winning some important battles: -no ads -no tracking -no vendor lock in -no preinstalled or unremovable crapware That's enough for me. Yes, it's not perfect, but you're simply allowed to say no.

> no preinstalled .. crapware Every distro except arch is full of preinstalled crapware. Some like OpenSuse even have preinstalled crapware bundles where stuff you uninstall comes back after update

[deleted]

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#76

Post by room505 »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #23

This article is full of nonsense. The Linux desktop push isn't failing because it has experiences and apps that are similar to Windows and macOS. Being able to run Windows apps on Linux is a benefit, not a failure. As for religious wars over init systems, desktop environments and package managers, competition is making the options stronger, not weaker. Competition is a reason why package management on Linux is far be…

It's because the software they use is not available. Put aside there are alternatives. There are not alternatives for some software. I would use Linux if Autodesk made Revit and AutoCAD for Linux.

I would venture to guess that kids know the difference between Mac and Windows and probably prefers one over the other.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#77

Post by BrandoElFollito »

I need to have Outlook, Zoom and zScaler working seamlessly. Not with wine or whatever but right there bam it works. Otherwise I cannot use the OS in my company.

I can install them if this is easy.

Now, I've been using Linux since 1994, wrote a small bit of the kernel at that time (you may have ran it, it was for a well known NIC) and I use it daily on my systems. Via ssh or remote dev in vscode.

I have no idea what the graphical interface is today and how to configure it. I could learn if this is easy.

One thing I know is that the sound did not work on my Thinkpad last time Ininstalled Ubuntu and the second screen would not wake up (the third did). Surely googling and chatgpting would help but in Windows 11 it just works.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#78

Post by blueflow »

blueflow wrote: post #3

> While this could absolutely happen, the way that Linux as a whole has been developing over the years isn't always conducive to making the world's Windows and macOS users convert en masse. Its the way Windows is developing that is driving this change. GNOME might be hardly usable but Microsoft managed to top that. Edit: I retract the last sentence. I'm currently trying GNOME and its less usable than Windows.

Edit 2: I accidentally minimized Steam to tray, but Gnome has no tray. Steam continues running invisible without being represented somewhere in the UI. One of the developers of Gnome (the only DE where this happens) said this is an application bug[1]. And then continues to complain that devs only test against "stock" environments.... but Gnome is the stock environment. What an ass.

I do understand why people bash Gnome and their developers. The hate is deserved.

[1] https://discourse.gnome.org/t/feature-request-show-when-apps...

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#79

Post by blueflow »

takluyver wrote: post #55
ZenoArrow wrote: post #23

This article is full of nonsense. The Linux desktop push isn't failing because it has experiences and apps that are similar to Windows and macOS. Being able to run Windows apps on Linux is a benefit, not a failure. As for religious wars over init systems, desktop environments and package managers, competition is making the options stronger, not weaker. Competition is a reason why package management on Linux is far be…

> As for religious wars over init systems, desktop environments and package managers, competition is making the options stronger, not weaker. Competition can definitely improve things, but it's not universally positive. In particular, endless competition in parts of the operating system makes it hard to build anything on top of them. E.g. if you want to distribute an application for Linux, do you build a Flatpak, or…

Its not about competition. RedHat employees pushed their idea of things and the volunteers either ate it up or left.

RedHats and Canonicals paying enterprise customers are whats keeping the Linux ecosystem alive. No one else brings the required manpower to the table.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#80

Post by ZenoArrow »

blueflow wrote: post #79
takluyver wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for religious wars over init systems, desktop environments and package managers, competition is making the options stronger, not weaker. Competition can definitely improve things, but it's not universally positive. In particular, endless competition in parts of the operating system makes it hard to build anything on top of them. E.g. if you want to distribute an application for Linux, do you build a Flatpak, or…

Its not about competition. RedHat employees pushed their idea of things and the volunteers either ate it up or left. RedHats and Canonicals paying enterprise customers are whats keeping the Linux ecosystem alive. No one else brings the required manpower to the table.

> Its not about competition. RedHat employees pushed their idea of things and the volunteers either ate it up or left.

This is a narrow view about how innovation happens in Linux and related software. Yes, Linux-focused companies are driving many of the changes, but there is plenty of exploration of ideas that happens outside of those companies.

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