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A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

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Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#41

Post by j_seigh »

nancyminusone wrote: post #28
ronsor wrote: post #2

PayPal security is amazing. It randomly locks people out of their accounts and randomly closes their accounts too, but actual fraudsters and criminals are never deterred.

PayPal also appears to suffer data leaks more than anyone else. I use multiple email addresses for every service I sign up for. But of all all the spam email I get, 99% has my PayPal email on it, and I even have other email addresses posted publicly.

It's worse than you think. I've closed PayPal accounts and opened new ones with a different email address and PayPal updates the merchants who've been spamming me with the new email address. There's no legitimate technical reason PayPal can't use a mail relay with transaction specific email addresses to control spam.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#42

Post by freejazz »

hibikir wrote: post #35
ronsor wrote: post #2

PayPal security is amazing. It randomly locks people out of their accounts and randomly closes their accounts too, but actual fraudsters and criminals are never deterred.

I never worked for PayPal, but I did for a competitor. Dealing with fraud is a red queen game: The fraudsters can keep trying until they find what gaps are there in your system, and will sometimes communicate with each other: Part of our defense system involved infiltrating some of those spaces and seeing the guides that were being sold to try to commit fraud in our platform. Meanwhile you will still have a false pos…

The problem isn't the fraud, the problem is that they do not pay enough staff to deal with it which leads to legitimate accounts getting closed out and people not being able to do anything about it. Money seized, etc.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#43

Post by calmbonsai »

hibikir wrote: post #35
ronsor wrote: post #2

PayPal security is amazing. It randomly locks people out of their accounts and randomly closes their accounts too, but actual fraudsters and criminals are never deterred.

I never worked for PayPal, but I did for a competitor. Dealing with fraud is a red queen game: The fraudsters can keep trying until they find what gaps are there in your system, and will sometimes communicate with each other: Part of our defense system involved infiltrating some of those spaces and seeing the guides that were being sold to try to commit fraud in our platform. Meanwhile you will still have a false pos…

My issue with PayPal is they've always been that way. I've come close to deleting my account on 4 separate occasions.

I've had one since shortly after their merger from the old X.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com_(bank) .

Per discussions on this thread, the singular reason people have tolerated their horrid service over the years they've been an effective monopoly in many locales.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#44

Post by calmbonsai »

freejazz wrote: post #42
hibikir wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never worked for PayPal, but I did for a competitor. Dealing with fraud is a red queen game: The fraudsters can keep trying until they find what gaps are there in your system, and will sometimes communicate with each other: Part of our defense system involved infiltrating some of those spaces and seeing the guides that were being sold to try to commit fraud in our platform. Meanwhile you will still have a false pos…

The problem isn't the fraud, the problem is that they do not pay enough staff to deal with it which leads to legitimate accounts getting closed out and people not being able to do anything about it. Money seized, etc.

Amen.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#45

Post by yogorenapan »

ronsor wrote: post #2

PayPal security is amazing. It randomly locks people out of their accounts and randomly closes their accounts too, but actual fraudsters and criminals are never deterred.

Indeed. And it's not a recent phenomenon either. I lost my first ever paycheck to PayPal randomly freezing my account. Was never able to get it back. Never used it again

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#46

Post by scns »

tchalla wrote: post #15
mtmail wrote: post #3

German, well West European, banks are slow in creating a competitor to Paypal, called Wero. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment) I'm not implying they block Paypal because of that. It's good to have more competition and I wished my bank would take part.

German banks (and in general businesses) are amazing. They won't do anything until legally required to do so and even then will drag their feet. There has been instant bank transfers (transfers in 10 seconds) available for a while - launched in November 2017. German banks kept charging 1.5€ for this instant transfer or some didn't have them available at all. They didn't build any of these systems and yet this was the…

Have used them for a long time, never paid for them. GLS is a great bank, happy customer. The crappy ones like to keep your money in their books as long as possible.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#47

Post by freedomben »

dkga wrote: post #34
nancyminusone wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PayPal also appears to suffer data leaks more than anyone else. I use multiple email addresses for every service I sign up for. But of all all the spam email I get, 99% has my PayPal email on it, and I even have other email addresses posted publicly.

Perhaps those are not leaks, but outright data sales

Exactly. They're not leaks, they're sales

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#48

Post by ronsor »

calmbonsai wrote: post #43
hibikir wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never worked for PayPal, but I did for a competitor. Dealing with fraud is a red queen game: The fraudsters can keep trying until they find what gaps are there in your system, and will sometimes communicate with each other: Part of our defense system involved infiltrating some of those spaces and seeing the guides that were being sold to try to commit fraud in our platform. Meanwhile you will still have a false pos…

My issue with PayPal is they've always been that way. I've come close to deleting my account on 4 separate occasions. I've had one since shortly after their merger from the old X.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com_(bank) . Per discussions on this thread, the singular reason people have tolerated their horrid service over the years they've been an effective monopoly in many locales.

> the singular reason people have tolerated their horrid service over the years they've been an effective monopoly in many locales.

This is correct. For some reason, many people (merchants surprisingly!) love PayPal and only accept payments through it, especially those outside the US and UK. Sometimes "guest payments" aren't an option, and that means you either get a PayPal account or don't purchase the product/service.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#49

Post by mrweasel »

rvnx wrote: post #39
mrweasel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They never really had much of a reason to create a competitor. There where already plenty of alternatives once online shopping/payments became a thing. Here you could do "cash on delivery", credit/debit card, account transfers (yes even across banks, it not as big an issue as US banks makes it) or you could send stamps (not a popular options). There was never a need for PayPal or PayPal style services. These days it'…

The + of PayPal was in 2005 when you could use it to hide your card number from the merchant. But now, you can generate one-time use cards, which are safer than assigning a card on your PayPal account. The other thing, is that you can do chargebacks more easily, when you buy on eBay, but this comes at the cost of higher fees (which is basically insurance) Other than that, it's a platform that cannot be trusted

I can't speak to how other European countries did only payments, but you never gave your credit card number to the merchant in Denmark. It was always done via a 3rd. party payment provider, initially mostly DIBS, then came WorldPay and later many more.

Charge backs was also always fairly easily done via your bank. Though you did have to call them, so yes PayPal was/is easier. I don't know, the trust in PayPal was always really really low.

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