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Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

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Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#41

Post by skydhash »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #31
ZenoArrow wrote: post #23

This article is full of nonsense. The Linux desktop push isn't failing because it has experiences and apps that are similar to Windows and macOS. Being able to run Windows apps on Linux is a benefit, not a failure. As for religious wars over init systems, desktop environments and package managers, competition is making the options stronger, not weaker. Competition is a reason why package management on Linux is far be…

> Being able to run Windows apps on Linux is a benefit, not a failure. It is a massive moral failure though. It shows that after two decades of work, the Linux community has been unable to build a simple sane functional stable development environment better than Win32.

Sane here is bearing a lot of weight. Developing on Linux is far easier than developing on Windows. I've never seen a windows project as simple as nq[0] or dwm[1].

[0]: https://git.vuxu.org/nq/

[1]: https://git.suckless.org/dwm/files.html

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#42

Post by gjsman-1000 »

tjoff wrote: post #40
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being able to run Windows apps on Linux is a benefit, not a failure. It is a massive moral failure though. It shows that after two decades of work, the Linux community has been unable to build a simple sane functional stable development environment better than Win32.

Neither has Microsoft, Google nor Apple.

A random macOS binary is more likely to run on another macOS install from anytime in the last half decade than a Linux binary on the same distribution.

Even Apple’s famously fast deprecation is like rock by comparison.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#43

Post by g42gregory »

In both Linux and Windows, websites, in any browser, look “washed out” and not pleasant to look at.

But MacOS always gets it right: in any browser, the websites look “juicy” for the lack of a better word, and pleasant to look at.

Why can’t Linux fix this and render closer to MacOS?

Hopefully, without all the other “value added” stuff.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#44

Post by TacticalCoder »

discardedrefuse wrote: post #17

It's 2025. The "year of the linux desktop" has been a meme for years. No one says it in earnest. No one is having init or DE wars. And while there is plenty of healthy discussion about flatpak and other alt forms of software distribution, this is exactly the kind of innovation and experimentation that leads to the usability improvements the author wants to see. Linux is doing just fine, and I'm glad there are multipl…

[dead]

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#45

Post by hshdhdhj4444 »

This article is completely incoherent.

It first complains that the Linux wins, such as running more games, etc are the wrong wins because they make Linux more like Windows.

And yet, later, it says the reason Windows for ARM failed is the apps users wanted not running for it, and what users really want is their stuff to just work. But that’s literally the stuff the author called the wrong kind of win at the beginning.

Further, the author complains about the multiple DEs, init systems, etc and considers this fragmentation to be the cause of LOTD’s failure. And yet, getting rid of this would actually make Linux like Windows/Mac unlike adding compatibility for more games.

Finally, I think this is substantially wrong as well. The variety in Linux is what made it possible for Valve, for example, to put together the steam deck. They were able to choose the combination of different options in different areas they worked best for the Steam Deck’s use case. Further, Linux’s tremendous success on the server is also likely due to fragmentation. The fragmentation meant that several different companies could survive and flourish, such as SUSE, Ubuntu, RH, etc and each one of them could contribute different improvements that either helped the entire ecosystem or initially provided an advantage on their ecosystem which the competitors would need to come up with an answer for.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#46

Post by skydhash »

_fat_santa wrote: post #28
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the real problem is that the only thing that’s well tested is what devs use. It’s like the FOSS parallel to startups only testing on top of the line MacBook Pros and iPhones (“works on my machine”). As soon as you step outside those bounds, good luck.

> Yeah the real problem is that the only thing that’s well tested is what devs use I see this issue as well. A CLI setup with Emacs/VIM doing C/C++ development is very stable, because that's how the majority of linux devs interact with Linux. What puts a bad taste in my mouth is when you mention issues outside of that setup, the usual response isn't "oh this is an issue we need to fix", it's "well your setup sucks, s…

Chrome and VSCode do suck. More developers there than the Linux kernel and they won't play nice with Wayland. Shame!

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#47

Post by bee_rider »

This desire for “year of Linux on the desktop” is always attributed to “Linux lovers,” and other nebulous fan voices. This article uses the word “win,” but as far as I can see the prize they are looking for is… a lot of additional non-technical desktop users? Why? What’s the goal here that actually benefits Linux or broader open source development?

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#48

Post by Spivak »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #31
ZenoArrow wrote: post #23

This article is full of nonsense. The Linux desktop push isn't failing because it has experiences and apps that are similar to Windows and macOS. Being able to run Windows apps on Linux is a benefit, not a failure. As for religious wars over init systems, desktop environments and package managers, competition is making the options stronger, not weaker. Competition is a reason why package management on Linux is far be…

> Being able to run Windows apps on Linux is a benefit, not a failure. It is a massive moral failure though. It shows that after two decades of work, the Linux community has been unable to build a simple sane functional stable development environment better than Win32.

Huh? Does the mountain of software written for Linux to the point where Windows added Linux support to attract devs mean nothing?

Surely WSL is not a moral failure for Microsoft.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#49

Post by extraisland »

donmcronald wrote: post #38
skydhash wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a computer take training. Look at a windows user switching to macOS. It's not intuitive for them either. GNOME is actually nice, even if it's less customizable than KDE.

MacOS has some really clunky stuff. I hate finder. I like Gnome once I add dash to dock, tray icons, and window manager tweaks. I’m just saying the defaults are a bad choice if they want adoption.

Totally agree. Dash To Dock + App Indicators seem like they should be part of Gnome. I end ups changing to the icons to Papirus as I prefer those. They make Gnome really nice to use.

Re: Desktop Linux Keeps Winning the Wrong Battles

#50

Post by tjoff »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #42
tjoff wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither has Microsoft, Google nor Apple.

A random macOS binary is more likely to run on another macOS install from anytime in the last half decade than a Linux binary on the same distribution. Even Apple’s famously fast deprecation is like rock by comparison.

... which is much less of a problem for Linux than closed source ecosystems.
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