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Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

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Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#121

Post by dns_snek »

beardyw wrote: post #60

I know I risk being down voted remorselessly but I have to put this in context. Where in the real world is anonymity considered ok? If I only put a flyer through someone's letterbox here in the UK, I have to identify myself. If I sell a physical product I not only have to identify myself but take on serious legal liability. An author can take on a pseudonym but only via an identified publisher. In fact that latter ex…

> Where in the real world is anonymity considered ok?

You've listed commercial activities. The vast majority of non-commercial activities don't require any sort of registration or identification.

Installing an app that your friend or internet stranger developed in their spare time is not a commercial activity and people shouldn't be forced to publish their personal information in order to do so.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#122

Post by supermatt »

They know the days of the app-store monopolies are ending so they are now implementing apple-style notarisation - which they could have done years ago, but never seemed to need to until now...

IMHO, thats is them still having an unfair control over the android market so the EU will come for them eventually - and no doubt they will implement some other devious bullshit.

Ideally the world will wake up and realise multi-sector megacorps simply should not exist and split them all up accordingly - but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#123

Post by mrheosuper »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #85
mettamage wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked an LLM, so I think I get it but could you try to mention what is meant with "Stallman was right"? The reason I'm asking you and not posting the LLM answer is because it still feels a bit icky to post an LLM answer for everything I don't understand [1]. [1] Feel free to discuss this too, if you want. I'm developing my opinion on it.

Stallman has a long history of being very abrasive and ideological. He is the kind of guy who makes zero concessions for practicality, and he insists on prioritizing user freedom because he has always feared that otherwise users will be locked out of having the ability to truly control their computers. It's always been kind of easy to laugh at his crusade because of how zealous he is, and how absurd the scenarios he…

> He is the kind of guy who makes zero concessions for practicality

Didn't he give some wiggle room in GPL license ?

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#124

Post by silverliver »

cuu508 wrote: post #40
whs wrote: post #14

I used to run Shizuku for my phone to run Hail (an app suspension tool). Now that my credit card bank start checking for USB Debugging I stopped using the app (and now my 3DS OTP has to be over SMS). I believe there's only two banks left in Thailand that do not check for one and it is just a matter of time, because any time these banks could have hired any of those "security" people who will ask why don't we block th…

Perhaps using the bank's website is an option? I don't have a banking app installed on my phone. When I need to make a bank transfer I sit down at the computer.

My bank retired their online banking website in favor of their app.

Not only that, but many of their core services (national payment network) are now exclusively offered in their app and no where else (yes, they will not allow you to do them in person or through their ATM). Your bank _will_ disable their website when you are the only one left using it.

I am not exaggerating. There is no way for me to use these core services if I don't use their app and they wont allow me to use their app thanks to their google play policy.

Unless otherwise mandated, their website will go away and they will have their way with your rights and make you pay for it.

Don't shrug this off. Fight this while you still can.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#126

Post by pjerem »

pjmlp wrote: post #86
sschueller wrote: post #2

The requirement of verification to side-load any app is fascist control. It is clear as night and day. Shame on Google and Apple, it was always clear this was the end goal and next up is also your PC. Right after will come the removal off apps they don't like and there is nothing you can do about it. Stallman was right

PC only turned out open, because IBM never saw it coming, and when they tried to get control back it was too late.

Yep. PC openness is totaly a bug and not a feature of the capitalism. We should cherish this situation and fight for it because it really feels like the other long term alternative is techno-fascism.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#127

Post by bigstrat2003 »

simoncion wrote: post #119
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman has a long history of being very abrasive and ideological. He is the kind of guy who makes zero concessions for practicality, and he insists on prioritizing user freedom because he has always feared that otherwise users will be locked out of having the ability to truly control their computers. It's always been kind of easy to laugh at his crusade because of how zealous he is, and how absurd the scenarios he…

> He is the kind of guy who makes zero concessions for practicality... Respectfully, this claim is incorrect. See this 2013 essay [0] for one example out of many where concessions are made to practicality. Folks who are unfamiliar with Stallman's writing and the general philosophy of the FSF and/or the GNU Project might find spending an hour or so reading through some of the essays here [1] (perhaps starting with thi…

From your link 0:

> The question here is, is it ever a good thing to use a nonfree program? Our conclusion is that it is usually a bad thing, harmful to yourself and in some cases to others. If you run a nonfree program on your computer, it denies your freedom; the immediate wrong is directed at you.

That is most certainly not making concessions for practicality in my book. So if anything, the citation you provided is IMO evidence for my claim.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#128

Post by ajb »

teekert wrote: post #87
ajb wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Android stack, right back to the pre-aquisition "Danger" stack, ripped out everything GPL'd above the kernel, and Google has been investing in their "fuschia" project to make a non-GPL'dv kernel as well. Gradually making more and more of it proprietary was the plan. Google is a big company and there may have been some factions pushing to make android an open ecosystem, but I don't see that that was ever the compa…

So the real question is: Why are people so social and pleasant, and why are companies so egoistic (and I mean egoistic in the cancer/parasitic/enshitifying way, not in the Ayn-Rand/social/We-are-all-equal way). Is it the lack of deep, DNA encoded morality? What are we going to do about this? What is the DNA of an organization anyway? How, as a society can we take away these stimuli that make it so natural to consume…

There are mechanisms which make firms more social: cooperatives. In another world, public infrastructure such as android would be owned by a cooperative of it's users. Instead, users are tenants of infrastructure owned by others, always vulnerable to the owners changing the deal

The problem is that it's difficult for cooperatives to raise capital: they can issue debt, but not equity (because the definition of a co-op is that it is owned by members (usually customers and employees )-and no-one else). But debt is not really risk capital in the same way as equity and doesn't enable bold initiatives and innovation.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#129

Post by simoncion »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #127
simoncion wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He is the kind of guy who makes zero concessions for practicality... Respectfully, this claim is incorrect. See this 2013 essay [0] for one example out of many where concessions are made to practicality. Folks who are unfamiliar with Stallman's writing and the general philosophy of the FSF and/or the GNU Project might find spending an hour or so reading through some of the essays here [1] (perhaps starting with thi…

From your link 0: > The question here is, is it ever a good thing to use a nonfree program? Our conclusion is that it is usually a bad thing, harmful to yourself and in some cases to others. If you run a nonfree program on your computer, it denies your freedom; the immediate wrong is directed at you. That is most certainly not making concessions for practicality in my book. So if anything, the citation you provided i…

To continue with the text of the rest of the section (with the footnotes present in the original removed):

  If you run a nonfree program on your computer, it denies your freedom; the immediate wrong is directed at you.
  
  That does not mean you're an “evildoer” or “sinner” for running a nonfree program. When the harm you're doing is mainly to yourself, we hope you will stop, for your own sake.
  
  Sometimes you may face great pressure to run a nonfree program; we don't say you must defy that pressure at all costs (though it is inspiring when someone does that), but we do urge you to look for occasions to where you can refuse, even in small ways.
  
  If you recommend that others run the nonfree program, or lead them to do so, you're leading them to give up their freedom. Thus, we have a responsibility not to lead or encourage others to run nonfree software. Where the program uses a secret protocol for communication, as in the case of Skype, your own use of it pressures others to use it too, so it is especially important to avoid any use of these programs.
  
  But there is one special case where using some nonfree software, and even urging others to use it, can be a positive thing. That's when the use of the nonfree software aims directly at putting an end to the use of that very same nonfree software.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#130

Post by silverliver »

Disposal8433 wrote: post #63
swe_dima wrote: post #18

There goes one of the main arguments why I've been using Android over iPhone

I also remember the early war between Androids and the iPhone. The main argument was that you don't need Google's permission to run applications.

Can Google be sued for misleading and defrauding phone owners?
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