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The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

iflscience.com

131–140 of 279 posts

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Alternatively, advanced megaprojects are only achievable through sophisticated large-scale cooperation. Alternatively, megastructures are only achievable through massive amounts of low wage workers with terrible working conditions. Consider: Panama canal, most large railroads, Snowy hydro. As time rolls forward we appear to lose our ability to do large things, and in part that's because we are less and less acceptin…

Advanced aliens (and we 'almost') will have robots for that. And they would also have less resource issues than us, so, they would have trillions of them.

I remain unconvinced of the viability of robots, as much as I love scifi renditions.

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#132
post #68

https://archive.is/2025.08.26-184549/https://www.iflscience....

Thanks... The fact that websites are now blocking Firefox by default as an "ad-blocker" is saddening.

FF 142.0 with uBlock Origin works fine.

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, advanced megaprojects are only achievable through sophisticated large-scale cooperation. Aggression leads to infighting; infighting wastes resources on zero-sum conflict. >based on the current state of humanity, I'm not to optimistic. Which version of Earth culture has a better shot at building e.g. a megastructure for an interstellar beacon: Earth culture during the post-nationalist 90s moment, or Ear…

> Alternatively, advanced megaprojects are only achievable through sophisticated large-scale cooperation. In that sense, war is a megaproject. War organized the Manhattan Project, which is still the metaphor we use for any massive scale, sophisticated project. The space race was a cold war endeavor to make ICBMs that weren't obviously ICBMs, and the Soviets were terrified that the Space Shuttle was a nuclear dive-bom…

On a species level, you can imagine an aggression/cooperation "species personality" axis. Humans are in the middle, with chimps more on the aggressive side, and bonobos to the cooperation side.

Being in the middle, humans have a bit of a split personality. We cooperate on a large scale during warfare. But consider the Cold War. Both the US and the USSR were continent-spanning countries with multiple ethnicities. I would argue that cooperation on that scale just isn't that different from cooperation on a planet-wide scale. A species that's capable of one is very likely to be capable of the other. That's part of why I'm not terminally pessimistic about humanity, or starfaring species more generally.

I don't think we can rule out starfaring for a species that's a little more bonobo-like, and defaults to a post-national outlook.

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand they could still see us as a threat to the collective due to our levels of aggression, and eliminate us to protect themselves.

It's a safe bet that if they know about us at all they'll just stay away from us. Our media is filled with depictions of us killing aliens. There's little reason to think we'd accept them. We can't even get along with/accept other humans. Some people's first instinct will be to shoot them. Others will want to lock them up and experiment on them. If aliens did come here they'd have to be very brave, powerful enough no…

>If aliens did come here they'd have to be very brave, powerful enough not to worry about what we'd do

If aliens had the technology to visit us right now, the latter is a given.

You don't have to assume anything crazy. You can create a planet killer by simply accelerating a decently massive object at relativistic speeds and firing it at earth.

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There are many, many cosmic processes that we don't know the first thing about. At one point, we didn't know what a pulsar was, and a fair amount of people probably thought it was an alien signal. Human History is littered with examples of attribution of the unexplained to aliens. So far, non alien explanations have been found for all of them, except possibly this one. Does it warrant further study? Absol…

Indeed. Human history is riddled with anthropomorphism and people here trying to argue for more of it. We probably wouldn't even recognize real aliens because we'd be too busy looking for our own reflection in the sky.

I doubt they'd be all that unfathomable. We come from the same universe after all, and as far as we can tell it's all governed by the same physics. It stands to reason that life on their worlds would have developed under at least some of the same rules we developed under on Earth. That should put at least some constraints on their forms and functions.

They might have learned different things than we have, they might know a lot more about our universe than we do, but I'd guess that much of what we've managed to learn so far will still be a part of their reality regardless of their level of familiarity with it. For example, more than 90% of the atoms in the universe are hydrogen. They might have discovered things that are more exotic and never seen on Earth, but the hydrogen atoms we've studied won't be any different from hydrogen they'd have studied. We share a home. By the time they've figured out enough of how the universe works to reach us it's pretty likely that we'll have some common ground to talk about.

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually briefly worked as a "paranormal investigator" when I was hard up for money --- someone came to me with some satellite photos they felt had evidence of UFOs. I found a scientist who ran said satellites, who explained what seemed odd were artificacts of the instrument, and they were only noticed because they occured in the area of the Nimitz[1], which then got heavily OSINTed by the woo woo crowd. I never to…

Thanks for sharing. I think we're seeing a lot of the same thing occurring in these comments. :( You'd probably be interested in my main comment too[0]. The signal has always been a terrible candidate for alien communication. Classic conspiracy problem where people become fixated on one aspect while ignoring all others. Like Carl Sagan said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary science". It's sad but I think a…

I would put forward that we can do many things collectively but not individually because we are part of a collective organism much more than we are individuals, though we are unable to see it due to a human having a limited perspective of only a part of a whole.

It is a common tendency to see humanity as a set of standalone humans[0] (if we cannot do something individually, but we can collectively, then we sort of can’t do it). However, a human only exists in context of others, and all we do is always in many ways (even if not real-time) a collaboration (starting from our education).

I’d argue an individual human being able to understand enough to navigate major problems of their world can’t be expected to exist and was probably never the case.

What is an alarming issue is that sometimes even a figurative anthill of many humans, as a collective super-entity, cannot adequately understand and navigate the reality it is facing.

[0] It is not helped by sci-fi that depicts various aliens as being collective beings, somehow contrasted with humans. In reality, we almost never go completely alone[1] for prolonged periods (except pathological cases), we are smarter when there is multiple of us, and the core of our interpretation of consciousness/sentience requires it to be social (anything else, and I don’t think we would even recognize it as consciousness—maybe that somehow relates to the great filter, too).

[1] When we do, our consciousness still supplies models of others in our lives, one way or another motivating our actions.

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing. I think we're seeing a lot of the same thing occurring in these comments. :( You'd probably be interested in my main comment too[0]. The signal has always been a terrible candidate for alien communication. Classic conspiracy problem where people become fixated on one aspect while ignoring all others. Like Carl Sagan said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary science". It's sad but I think a…

> truth has a lower bound in complexity while lies don't Very well said

I don't think that word salad really means anything. People fall for complex lies all the time. We just experienced it with 'public health experts' who had never done a single cost vs. benefit analysis in the real world nearly destroy civilization because they were enjoying the power trip. And they lied their asses off to us and many of you on HN still believe it because it's a huge blind spot for your intellects.

I don't think any truth is fundamental at all, I think it all has to remain up for review perpetually even though it irritates the living hell out of some people that it has to be is like that. You all seem to want "settled science" but science is never settled, nor is truth. Just the mere mention of "global warming" on here as an issue creates a knee-jerk reaction in people which makes me realize what we are up against is really a clash of incompatible personality types that will one day have to be sorted out violently. The winners of that conflict will determine "truth."

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#139
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any species that is advanced enough for interstellar communication will almost certainly be a highly aggressive apex species. You don't get to the top of the food chain by being nice, you get there by murdering all of the competition and plundering all of the resources. And if you were trying to be nice, someone else would have just wiped you out. The big question is if a species can eventually reach some point of co…

Certainly if they're like us, and travelling to new worlds, they'll be imperialistic and colonial. They'll plant a flag, because we obviously weren't really making use of the planet, not _really_, and attempt to civilise the natives through something between cultural erasure and genocide.

Colonialism isn't profitable for the same reason slavery isn't. We did it because we hadn't invented economics yet.

In space it seems like it'd be even worse; something would have to be very valuable to be worth taking it out of our gravity well.

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#140
post #96
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget about why would they - they can't get here. The speed of light is too slow. They can't even detect earth exists much less there is life (dinosaurs). detectable signals won't reach then for a long time if they even can reach them.

> Forget about why would they - they can't get here. The speed of light is too slow. They could get here in a generation ship. Heck, we could almost build a generation ship that could reach another solar system. First, there is the traditional generation ship where you set up a closed self sustaining ecosystem. I don't think we are anywhere near able to make such a closed system that would last for a trip to another…

> With enough automation the crew [of a generation ship] could be quite small.

Other than the engineering challenges, we don't have the faintest idea how a really long-term crew is going to work socially and psychologically in a constrained, isolated, artificial environment.

The closest analog are the naval/polar expeditions, which were unisex and under military or hierarchical command, none of them longer than a couple of years. Some perished (Franklin), some pivoted (Shackleton w/Endurance), some failed with loss of life (Scott), some worked (Amundsen). But all had options unavailable to a ship in vacuum, and were on an incomparably shorter timescale.

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