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macOS dotfiles should not go in –/Library/Application Support

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Re: macOS dotfiles should not go in –/Library/Application Support

#21

Post by re »

joshka wrote: post #18
re wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt anyone running Unix-style command-line/TUI tools where the config files are expected to be edited by hand by the user is expecting to find it in the Application Support directory; that directory is not a directory that Apple intends for users to ever interact with directly: > Put app-created support files in the Library/Application support/ directory. In general, this directory includes files that the app use…

(I maintain a fairly popular TUI library), and as a CLI/TUI user on macOS, I dislike the App Support folder a lot. But even though I dislike it, I'd expect that apps for mac should put their files there because the XDG spec doesn't apply to macOS. It's the wrong place, but the technically correct one. The right thing to do is fix the spec, and then fix the apps / libs to follow that. I wrote a top level thread that t…

How does the XDG spec not apply to macOS, and what "fix" are you proposing? https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/11/macos_15_is_unix/

> Probably another environment variable

Having any of the existing XDG_* environment variables set is an incredibly-clear indication that the user wants the XDG spec followed.

Re: macOS dotfiles should not go in –/Library/Application Support

#22

Post by bowsamic »

orlp wrote: post #3

I and others have brought this up with the dirs Rust crate maintainer but they refuse to see it this way: https://codeberg.org/dirs/dirs-rs/issues/64 . It's very frustrating. I now use a combination of xdg + known-folders manually: [target.'cfg(windows)'.dependencies] known-folders = "1.2.0" [target.'cfg(not(windows))'.dependencies] xdg = "2.5.2" to get the config directory: use anyhow::{Context, Result}; #[cfg(windo…

Why is that soc guy so angry and rude about it?

Re: macOS dotfiles should not go in –/Library/Application Support

#24

Post by JdeBP »

re wrote: post #6
JoshTriplett wrote: post #2

It seems like the best of both worlds, here, would be to put the files in ~/.config/yourprogram, and symlink that to `~/Library/Application Support/org.example.yourprogram`. That would satisfy folks expecting to find it in either place. The only folks it wouldn't satisfy would be those complaining about the files being present in one of those places at all, and that seems like the least of the concerns compared to ma…

I doubt anyone running Unix-style command-line/TUI tools where the config files are expected to be edited by hand by the user is expecting to find it in the Application Support directory; that directory is not a directory that Apple intends for users to ever interact with directly: > Put app-created support files in the Library/Application support/ directory. In general, this directory includes files that the app use…

Missing from the "hidden from the user" argument is the fact that .config, and dotfiles in general, are also hidden from the user. It's not the defining distinction that one may think it to be.

Re: macOS dotfiles should not go in –/Library/Application Support

#25

Post by mbreese »

joshka wrote: post #18
re wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt anyone running Unix-style command-line/TUI tools where the config files are expected to be edited by hand by the user is expecting to find it in the Application Support directory; that directory is not a directory that Apple intends for users to ever interact with directly: > Put app-created support files in the Library/Application support/ directory. In general, this directory includes files that the app use…

(I maintain a fairly popular TUI library), and as a CLI/TUI user on macOS, I dislike the App Support folder a lot. But even though I dislike it, I'd expect that apps for mac should put their files there because the XDG spec doesn't apply to macOS. It's the wrong place, but the technically correct one. The right thing to do is fix the spec, and then fix the apps / libs to follow that. I wrote a top level thread that t…

And I’d also argue that the App Support folder doesn’t apply to CLI/TUI config files either. Apple doesn’t force CLI programs it distributes from storing files in App Support. If this were the case, wouldn’t you also expect the .ssh folder to be relocated from $HOME to App Support on a Mac?

Much like the original author, my opinion is that you should do the least surprising to the user and if that’s not what the spec says, so be it.

Re: macOS dotfiles should not go in –/Library/Application Support

#26

Post by Null-Set »

joshka wrote: post #19
orlp wrote: post #3

I and others have brought this up with the dirs Rust crate maintainer but they refuse to see it this way: https://codeberg.org/dirs/dirs-rs/issues/64 . It's very frustrating. I now use a combination of xdg + known-folders manually: [target.'cfg(windows)'.dependencies] known-folders = "1.2.0" [target.'cfg(not(windows))'.dependencies] xdg = "2.5.2" to get the config directory: use anyhow::{Context, Result}; #[cfg(windo…

From my previous recollection, there's an issue for this in just about every rust crate that handles these dirs. The right way to fix this is fix the spec, then make the libs adhere to the spec.

How would you fix the spec? Add a line explicitly stating the /Library/Application Support dir is only for applications with a bundle ID, instead of just implying it?

Re: macOS dotfiles should not go in –/Library/Application Support

#27

Post by eklavya »

quotemstr wrote: post #13
orlp wrote: post #3

I and others have brought this up with the dirs Rust crate maintainer but they refuse to see it this way: https://codeberg.org/dirs/dirs-rs/issues/64 . It's very frustrating. I now use a combination of xdg + known-folders manually: [target.'cfg(windows)'.dependencies] known-folders = "1.2.0" [target.'cfg(not(windows))'.dependencies] xdg = "2.5.2" to get the config directory: use anyhow::{Context, Result}; #[cfg(windo…

> they refuse to see it this way That's why the long-term future of app development is containers. It is not possible, on a human level, to convince people to lift even the lightest of fingers for the common good. Consider https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ The XDG specification has been around for 22 years. It has real benefits for users. It's trivial to implement. Yet even in the year of ou…

I have absolutely no opinion on "common good" or "standard" here.

I wholeheartedly agree about the containers part though, just have everything within a folder in a container somewhere so I don't have to keep googling where X stores Y and still failing half the time.

Re: macOS dotfiles should not go in –/Library/Application Support

#30

Post by dclowd9901 »

bowsamic wrote: post #22
orlp wrote: post #3

I and others have brought this up with the dirs Rust crate maintainer but they refuse to see it this way: https://codeberg.org/dirs/dirs-rs/issues/64 . It's very frustrating. I now use a combination of xdg + known-folders manually: [target.'cfg(windows)'.dependencies] known-folders = "1.2.0" [target.'cfg(not(windows))'.dependencies] xdg = "2.5.2" to get the config directory: use anyhow::{Context, Result}; #[cfg(windo…

Why is that soc guy so angry and rude about it?

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