Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

blog.howardjohn.info

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 522 posts

Re: It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

#181

Post by hellisothers »

Aurornis wrote: post #138
baq wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> individuals incurring expenses in the tens of thousands range peanuts compared to their 500k TC

Very few companies pay $500K. Even at FAANG a lot of people are compensated less than that. I do think a lot of this comment section is assuming $500K TC employees at employers with infinite cash to spend, though.

But at the FAANGy companies I’ve worked at this issue persists. Mobile engineers working on 3yo computers and seeing new hires compile 2x (or more) faster with their newer machines.

Re: It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

#182

Post by jjmarr »

avidiax wrote: post #10

Employers, even the rich FANG types, are quite penny-wise and pound-foolish when it comes to developer hardware. Limiting the number and size of monitors. Putting speedbumps (like assessments or doctor's notes) on ergo accessories. Requiring special approval for powerful hardware. Requiring special approval for travel, and setting hotel and airfare caps that haven't been adjusted for inflation. To be fair, I know ple…

It's not abuse to open 500 Chrome tabs if they're work-related and increase my productivity.

I am 100x more expensive than the laptop. Anything the laptop can do instead of me is something the laptop should be doing instead of me.

Re: It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

#183

Post by Tsiklon »

brookst wrote: post #94
wqaatwt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn’t really make desktop CPUs, though. Just very good oversized mobile ones. For AMD/Intel laptop, desktop and server CPUs usually are based on different architectures and don’t have that much overlap.

What’s the difference between a M4 max and a “real” desktop processor?

Generally PCI-E lanes and memory bandwidth tend to be the big difference between mobile and proper desktop workstation processors.

Core count used to be a big difference but the ARM Procs in the Apple machines certainly meet the lower end workstation parts now. to exceed it you're spending big big money to get high core counts in the x86 space.

Proper desktop processors have lots and lots of PCI-E Lanes. The current cream of the crop Threadripper Pro 9000 series have 128 PCI-E 5.0 Lanes. A frankly enormous amount of fast connectivity.

M2 Ultra, the current closest workstation processor in Apple's lineup (at least in a comparable form factor in the Mac Pro) has 32 lanes of PCI-E 4.0 connectivity that's enhanced by being slotted into a PCI-E Switch fabric on their Mac Pro. (this I suspect is actually why there hasn't been a rework of the Mac Pro to use M3 Ultra - that they'll ditch the switch fabric for direct wiring on their next one)

Memory bandwidth is a closer thing to call here - using the Threadripper pro 9000 series as an example we have 8 channels of 6400MT/s DDR5 ECC. According to kingston the bus width of DDR5 is 64b so that'll get us ((6400 * 64)/8) = 51,200MB/s per channel; or 409.6 GB/s when all 8 channels are loaded.

On the M4 Max the reported bandwidth is 546 GB/s - but i'm not so certain how this is calculated as the maths doesn't quite stack up from the information i have (8533 MT/s, bus width of 64b, seems to point towards 68,264MB/s per channel. the reported speed doesn't neatly slot into those numbers).

In short the memory bandwidth bonus workstation processors traditionally have is met by the M4 Max, but PCI-E Extensibility is not.

In the mac world though that's usually not a problem as you're not able to load up a Mac Pro with a bunch of RTX Pro 6000s and have it be usable in MacOS. You can however load your machine with some high bandwidth NICs or HBAs i suppose (but i've not seen what's available for this platform)

Re: It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

#184

Post by zozbot234 »

mortsnort wrote: post #176
gnfargbl wrote: post #49

OK, I'm convinced. Can someone tell me what to buy, specifically? Needs to run Ubuntu, support 2 x 4K monitors (3 would be nice), have at least 64GB RAM and fit on my desk. Don't particularly care how good the GPU is / is not. Here's my starting point: gmktec.com/products/amd-ryzen™-ai-max-395-evo-x2-ai-mini-pc. Anything better?

The computer you listed is specifically designed for running local AI inference, because it has an APU with lots of integrated RAM. If that isn't your use case then AMD 9000 series should be better.

Not just local AI inference, plenty of broader workstation workloads will benefit from a modern APU with a lot of VRAM-equivalent.

Re: It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

#185

Post by kec »

varjag wrote: post #157
kec wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for an enterprise buying (or renting) furniture in bulk it isn’t. The chair will also easily last a decade and be turned over to the next employee if this one leaves… unlike computer hardware which is unlikely to be reused and will historically need to be replaced every 24-36 months even if your dev sticks around anyway.

Right, the employee with unlimited spend would want to sit in a used chair.

That’s more or less my point from a different angle: unlimited spend isn’t reasonable and the justification “but $other_thing is way more expensive!” Is often incorrect.

Re: It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

#186

Post by AtlanticThird »

dcrazy wrote: post #175
Aurornis wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every well funded startup I’ve worked for went through a period where employees could get nearly anything they asked for: New computers, more monitors, special chairs, standing desks, SaaS software, DoorDash when working late. If engineers said they needed it, they got it. Then some period of time later they start looking at spending in detail and can’t believe how much is being spent by the 25% or so who abuse the p…

Is it “soft fraud” when a manager at an investment bank regularly demands unreasonable productivity from their junior analysts, causing them to work late and effectively reduce their compensation rate? Only if the word “abuse” isn’t ambiguous and loaded enough for you!

Lying about a laptop being stolen is black and white. I'm not sure how you are trying to say that is ambiguous.

I don't know what the hell you mean by the term unreasonable. Are you under the impression that investment banking analysts do not think they will have to work late before they take the role?

Re: It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

#187

Post by npn »

I find it crazy that some people only use a single laptop for their dev work. Meanwhile I have 3 PCs, 5 monitors, keyboards and mouses, and still think they are not enough.

There are a lot of jobs that should run in a home server running 24/7 instead of abusing your poor laptop. Remote dedicated servers work, but the latency is killing your productivity, and it is pricey if you want a server with a lot of disk space.

Re: It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

#188

Post by alt227 »

incone123 wrote: post #156
Aurornis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people demanding new top spec MacBook Pros every year aren’t the same people requesting the cheapest Chinese standing desk they can find.

I can understand paying more for fast processors and so on but a standing desk just goes up and down. What features do the high end desks have that I am missing out on?

Doesnt matter, some people just want whatever the company will spring for them.

Re: It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

#189

Post by alt227 »

hellisothers wrote: post #181
Aurornis wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few companies pay $500K. Even at FAANG a lot of people are compensated less than that. I do think a lot of this comment section is assuming $500K TC employees at employers with infinite cash to spend, though.

But at the FAANGy companies I’ve worked at this issue persists. Mobile engineers working on 3yo computers and seeing new hires compile 2x (or more) faster with their newer machines.

If they care that much about compile time, they would work on a desktop instead of a laptop.

Re: It is worth it to buy the fast CPU

#190

Post by toast0 »

beachtaxidriver wrote: post #111
tgma wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FANG is not monolithic. Amazon is famously cheap. So is Apple in my opinion based on what I have heard (you get random refurbished hardware that is available not some standardized thing, sometimes with 8GB RAM sometimes something nicer) Apple is also famously cheap on their compensation. Back in the day they proudly said shit to the effect of "we deliberately don't pay you top of the market because you have to love A…

Google used to be so un-cheap they had a dedicated ergo lab room where you could try out different keyboards. They eventually became so cheap they blanket paused refreshing developer laptops...

Yahoo was cheap/stingy/cost concious as hell. They still had a well stocked ergo team, at least for the years I was there. You'd schedule an ergo consult during new hire orientation, and you'd get a properly sized seat and your desk height adjusted if needed and etc. Lots of ergo keyboards, although I didn't see a lot of kinesis back then.

Proper ergo is a cost concious move. It helps keep your employees able to work which saves on hiring and training. It reduces medical expenses, which affects the bottom line because large companies are usually self-insured; they pay a medical insurance company only to administer the plan, not for insurance --- claims are paid from company money.

Post reply on HN