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A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

#41

Post by davnicwil »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #21
deadbabe wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people think ancient people were idiots. Romans could have invented steam engines if they wanted to.

One thing I've learned is that in all of the brief history of humans we're aware of, people a lot smarter than I am existed in fairly large numbers. It puts things into perspective. They would have learned to use hacker news and program computers as easily as I do. We stand on the shoulders of giants. I love the perspective they had on things due to living in such different (yet remarkably similar) conditions.

Definitely true. In modern times we confuse understanding things with just being used to them.

I'm typing this on a smartphone. I don't conciously think of it as my "magic pane of glass" like the cliched Roman might but what's actually going on when I tap this screen is as much a mystery to me as it would be to them, at least beyond a few high-level concepts which it also wouldn't take all that much time to explain.

Every day we ride atop an unfathomable stack of abstractions and shouldn't take as much subconcious credit for this as we do. As a civilisation yes you might say we're smarter, but as individuals definitely not.

Re: A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

#42

Post by delichon »

davnicwil wrote: post #41
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've learned is that in all of the brief history of humans we're aware of, people a lot smarter than I am existed in fairly large numbers. It puts things into perspective. They would have learned to use hacker news and program computers as easily as I do. We stand on the shoulders of giants. I love the perspective they had on things due to living in such different (yet remarkably similar) conditions.

Definitely true. In modern times we confuse understanding things with just being used to them. I'm typing this on a smartphone. I don't conciously think of it as my "magic pane of glass" like the cliched Roman might but what's actually going on when I tap this screen is as much a mystery to me as it would be to them, at least beyond a few high-level concepts which it also wouldn't take all that much time to explain.…

I don't think that's just a modern thing. The feeling that you understand your phone is the same as feeling you understand the hand holding it. The hand is as magical of a technology as the phone. We are deeply adapted to living with such magic.

Re: A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

#43

Post by UncleSlacky »

WalterBright wrote: post #37
wqaatwt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also needed cheap fuel and relatively expensive labour to make it feasible. Early engines were used to pump water out of coal mines because they were very inefficient and transportation was very expensive. Of course Romans actually had coal mines in Britain and the Rhineland so it wouldn’t have been entirely fat fetched.

Most major inventions need a lot of available precursor technology, so it's actually kinda hard to think of things the Romans could have done if they only knew. I keep thinking of a primitive printing press, but the Romans didn't have paper, either. Paper didn't appear in Europe before 1000 AD.

They had papyrus, though.

Re: A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

#44

Post by davnicwil »

delichon wrote: post #42
davnicwil wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely true. In modern times we confuse understanding things with just being used to them. I'm typing this on a smartphone. I don't conciously think of it as my "magic pane of glass" like the cliched Roman might but what's actually going on when I tap this screen is as much a mystery to me as it would be to them, at least beyond a few high-level concepts which it also wouldn't take all that much time to explain.…

I don't think that's just a modern thing. The feeling that you understand your phone is the same as feeling you understand the hand holding it. The hand is as magical of a technology as the phone. We are deeply adapted to living with such magic.

Agreed. Indeed I'd guess the average Roman felt similarly about civilisations that came before them!

Re: A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

#45

Post by WalterBright »

UncleSlacky wrote: post #43
WalterBright wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most major inventions need a lot of available precursor technology, so it's actually kinda hard to think of things the Romans could have done if they only knew. I keep thinking of a primitive printing press, but the Romans didn't have paper, either. Paper didn't appear in Europe before 1000 AD.

They had papyrus, though.

Not really. They imported it, and never figured out how to make it. The papyrus plant would only grow in Egypt.

Papyrus was also inferior to paper in that it tended to come apart when wet, or would just come apart.

Re: A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

#46

Post by idkfasayer »

WalterBright wrote: post #27
deadbabe wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people think ancient people were idiots. Romans could have invented steam engines if they wanted to.

> Romans could have invented steam engines if they wanted to. They did not have the precursors to it, such as a lathe. Steam engine technology evolved out of cannon technology, which was developing for centuries before the steam engine. (The lathe also came about from cannon improvements.)

The only reason the Romans could not have invented the steam engine was that the Greeks already did before them:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile

They had a Lathe too.

Re: A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

#47

Post by cardiffspaceman »

user3939382 wrote: post #35
wileydragonfly wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hat of Theseus

I learned the formal name later in life but for many years pondered this in terms of sports teams. “I’m a Rams fan!” Are you really though?

I have been a Rams fan twice. I saw them defeat the Browns in a preseason game that benefited some charity (Fearsome Foursome era). It took place at the Coliseum. A blocked Browns punt sent the ball into the Browns end zone to settle the game in the final minutes. Then some scallawag moved the team to St Louis, and then better people moved it back to Los Angeles.

Aren’t all “teams” “of Theseus”? If the team remains in one city for say, 60 years, the people have changed over and over again. The stadium is probably different.

Re: A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

#48

Post by Ekaros »

WalterBright wrote: post #37
wqaatwt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also needed cheap fuel and relatively expensive labour to make it feasible. Early engines were used to pump water out of coal mines because they were very inefficient and transportation was very expensive. Of course Romans actually had coal mines in Britain and the Rhineland so it wouldn’t have been entirely fat fetched.

Most major inventions need a lot of available precursor technology, so it's actually kinda hard to think of things the Romans could have done if they only knew. I keep thinking of a primitive printing press, but the Romans didn't have paper, either. Paper didn't appear in Europe before 1000 AD.

Actually it seems textile printing does have contemporary history. And maybe even older one. So jump from there to other materials might not be impossible.

Re: A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

#49

Post by mk89 »

idkfasayer wrote: post #46
WalterBright wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Romans could have invented steam engines if they wanted to. They did not have the precursors to it, such as a lathe. Steam engine technology evolved out of cannon technology, which was developing for centuries before the steam engine. (The lathe also came about from cannon improvements.)

The only reason the Romans could not have invented the steam engine was that the Greeks already did before them: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile They had a Lathe too.

Incredible. I found this video that shows how the Aelopile works: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/trUtLLu_Ono

What an awesome invention!!!

Re: A 2k-year-old sun hat worn by a Roman soldier in Egypt

#50

Post by LtWorf »

WalterBright wrote: post #45
UncleSlacky wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had papyrus, though.

Not really. They imported it, and never figured out how to make it. The papyrus plant would only grow in Egypt. Papyrus was also inferior to paper in that it tended to come apart when wet, or would just come apart.

Papyrus grows fine in sicily (I have a lot in the garden, besides some water it doesn't really need any special care). Besides egypt was roman so…
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