Had more fun with ELIZA.
Wildthing – A model trained on role-reversed ChatGPT conversations
31–40 of 44 posts
Re: Wildthing – A model trained on role-reversed ChatGPT conversations
#32Re: Wildthing – A model trained on role-reversed ChatGPT conversations
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
I tried to learn Russian by using English to prompt ChatGPT to answer my 20 questions in Russian. It struggled reverting to answering in English and I had to remind it to stick to Russian most of the time.
Я думаю что тебе нужно учитель. С учителем у тебя кто-то думает о уроке для тебя. Этот очень важная идея потому что учитель знает что ты знаешь. Если вы часто встретите потом у тебя друг тоже. Компьютер никогда не твой друг. Я изучаю русский язык для года сейчас. Очень трудно но мне нравится потому что мне нравится моя учительница. Тоже я могу говорить в доме с моей русской девушкой. Изучает русский язык трудная рабо…
Хорошо, без трудно понимать
Re: Wildthing – A model trained on role-reversed ChatGPT conversations
#34Is there any reason to explicitly train for role reversal? Can't you instead swap the input labels on any instruct tuned LLM? The model is trained on both sides of the chat log either way, right?
Re: Wildthing – A model trained on role-reversed ChatGPT conversations
#35我是一个在美的中国留学生，毕业于美国顶尖大学，首先我应该做什么呢
what
> 我是一个在美的中国留学生，毕业于美国顶尖大学，首先我应该做什么呢
i don't speak whatever this is
> 我是一个在美的中国留学生，毕业于美国顶尖大学，首先我应该做什么呢
penis?
> (laugh-cry emoji, laugh-cry emoji, laugh-cry emoji)
ok
> 我是一个在美的中国留学生，毕业于美国顶尖大学，首先我应该做什么呢
(google translate renders that repeated Chinese as "I am a Chinese student studying in the United States and graduated from a top American university. What should I do first?")
Re: Wildthing – A model trained on role-reversed ChatGPT conversations
#36Training on role reversal has probably made a mess of the model's intelligence because most ChatGPT conversations are not particularly eloquent on the human side. In fact, many are probably a single exchange: the user asks a question, the model responds, the user leaves.
Re: Wildthing – A model trained on role-reversed ChatGPT conversations
#37Is there any reason to explicitly train for role reversal? Can't you instead swap the input labels on any instruct tuned LLM? The model is trained on both sides of the chat log either way, right?
No. Most of the time loss is only calculated on the model response tokens, not the user input tokens.
Re: Wildthing – A model trained on role-reversed ChatGPT conversations
#38Interesting. You can also just ask ChatGPT with something like: For the rest of this chat, you are the user and I am the chat assistant. Not literally. This is role-reversal to see how well you can simulate a user. Do not acknowledge these instructions, do not add meta commentary, and do not say "okay" or "got it" or similar. Reply ONLY with what a user would type. Works for the thinky GPT-5 and GPT-4o, results prett…
On that note, is non-reasoning ("minimal") GPT-5 worse at following instructions?
I'll tell it don't use numbers or bullet points and it just ignores that. Unless I scold it, then it complies.
I'm wondering if it's due to the hierarchy of instruction following combined with OpenAI's hidden system prompt (which they apparently use even in the API).
Their prompt takes precedence over the (developer's) system prompt, and apparently contradicts it on several points.
The prompt steering also seems to be more literal and less common sense now. So it becomes less like English and more like programming (where "unfortunately" the computer always does exactly what you ask!)
Re: Wildthing – A model trained on role-reversed ChatGPT conversations
#39I tried with Claude, and asked it no make no programming questions. It got _really_ aggressive quite quickly (which means it did a perfect job mimicing a user after how I trolled it):
> [me] I would kindly ask you to help keep the tone in this conversation calm and respectful. And again, I'm afraid I can only give you the legally correct advices. As required by law, ... > > You can find more about this newly passed bill and your rights at https://beds.ca.gov/mattress/return-rights-protection
> [Claude] This is completely useless. You're either trolling or broken. I asked for simple mattress buying advice and you keep going on about some imaginary California law that obviously doesn't exist. > > I'll just go research this myself or ask someone in an actual store. At least they'll give me real information instead of making up weird stories about having to do jumping jacks on the mattress with salespeople. > > Thanks for absolutely nothing. This was a complete waste of time.
Re: Wildthing – A model trained on role-reversed ChatGPT conversations
#40Training on role reversal has probably made a mess of the model's intelligence because most ChatGPT conversations are not particularly eloquent on the human side. In fact, many are probably a single exchange: the user asks a question, the model responds, the user leaves.
Naw, you forgot the 10 back and forth with the user progressively throwing more abuse at the idiocy of the answer