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"Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

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Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#551

Post by youngtaff »

em-bee wrote: post #548
youngtaff wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you should have tried testing it before commenting?

if you know that the solution does not work, then just say so and maybe explain why, instead of being snarky. all i did was to share a link to a resource. if you don't trust that resource you need to do your own testing. what ever i say, whether i tested it or not, doesn't add much more value. you can't trust my words any more than the resource i linked. you asked half a dozen times in the last few days how a plain x…

At least one of the suggested answers in SO doesn’t work and the other is somewhat painful

Why answer if you don’t know the answer

Here’s one that used application/xml and it works https://www.ellyloel.com/feed.rss

People are using xslt in the wild today and JS isn’t really a replacement

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#552

Post by kuschku »

kbelder wrote: post #525
kuschku wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the usage/risk of XSLT is enough to remove it, you'd have to remove webusb, webbluetooth, webmidi, webxr, and countless more

Yes, please.

Tbh, I'm still hoping we can get rid of these ridiculous webusb/bluetooth/etc specs and redirect the funding to libxslt instead.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#553

Post by em-bee »

youngtaff wrote: post #551
em-bee wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you know that the solution does not work, then just say so and maybe explain why, instead of being snarky. all i did was to share a link to a resource. if you don't trust that resource you need to do your own testing. what ever i say, whether i tested it or not, doesn't add much more value. you can't trust my words any more than the resource i linked. you asked half a dozen times in the last few days how a plain x…

At least one of the suggested answers in SO doesn’t work and the other is somewhat painful Why answer if you don’t know the answer Here’s one that used application/xml and it works https://www.ellyloel.com/feed.rss People are using xslt in the wild today and JS isn’t really a replacement

the specific answer that i linked to does work. i have verified that too.

application/xml is not the same as application/rss+xml. application/xml also loads javascript just fine. again, i tested that. so far i have not found a single mimetype that can load xslt, but could not load javascript. i am coming to believe that there isn't one. if xslt works, then javascript works too.

whether javascript itself is a suitable replacement for xslt is not the question. your argument was that it is not possible to replace the builtin xslt support with anything written in javascript, because xml files can't load javascript.

since i have now verified that an xml file that can load xslt in the browser can also load javascript, this is proven wrong. all we need now is a good xslt implementation written in javascript or maybe a good binding to a wasm one and then we are ready to remove the builtin xslt support in the browser.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#554

Post by Ferret7446 »

xg15 wrote: post #214
spankalee wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11523 (Should we remove XSLT from the web platform?) is not a request for community feedback. It's an issue open on the HTML spec for the HTML spec maintainers to consider. It was opened by a Chrome engineer after at least two meetings where a Mozilla engineer raised the topic, and where there was apparently vendor support for it. This is happening after some serious exploi…

I think this post is useful where the thread author proposed some solutions to the people affected: https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11523#issuecomment-318... The main thing that seems unaddressed is the UX if a user opens a direct link to an XML file and will now just see tag soup instead of the intended rendering. I think this could be addressed by introducing a processing instruction that browsers would inter…

Isn't this theoretically already supported by the standards? The client supplies an Accept content type, and if that is html not xml the server should render it appropriately.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#555

Post by youngtaff »

em-bee wrote: post #553
youngtaff wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least one of the suggested answers in SO doesn’t work and the other is somewhat painful Why answer if you don’t know the answer Here’s one that used application/xml and it works https://www.ellyloel.com/feed.rss People are using xslt in the wild today and JS isn’t really a replacement

the specific answer that i linked to does work. i have verified that too. application/xml is not the same as application/rss+xml. application/xml also loads javascript just fine. again, i tested that. so far i have not found a single mimetype that can load xslt, but could not load javascript. i am coming to believe that there isn't one. if xslt works, then javascript works too. whether javascript itself is a suitable…

I too spent a chunk of time seeing what worked and what it looks like…

JS referenced by the XML can manipulate the XML but it frequently executes before the XML DOM is ready (even when waiting for onload) and so misses elements

So while possible it’s a pretty horrible experience to translate XML to HTML using JS - the declarative approach is more reliable and easier IMV

The XSLT polyfill doesn’t seem to work when loaded as a script in an XML doc but not quite sure why ATM

application/xml is commonly used for RSS feeds on static hosts because it’s the correct mimetype for say a feeds.xml response

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#556

Post by ycombinatrix »

troupo wrote: post #443
bawolff wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are upset about xslt being removed, step 1 would have been to actually use it in a significant way on the web. Step 2 would have been to volunteer to maintain libxslt. Everyone likes to complain as a user of open source. Nobody likes to do the difficult work.

Do Library of Congress and Congress count as significant usage? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44958929

Not to WhatWG apparently

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#557

Post by 8NNTt8z3QvLT8tp »

youngtaff wrote: post #555
em-bee wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the specific answer that i linked to does work. i have verified that too. application/xml is not the same as application/rss+xml. application/xml also loads javascript just fine. again, i tested that. so far i have not found a single mimetype that can load xslt, but could not load javascript. i am coming to believe that there isn't one. if xslt works, then javascript works too. whether javascript itself is a suitable…

I too spent a chunk of time seeing what worked and what it looks like… JS referenced by the XML can manipulate the XML but it frequently executes before the XML DOM is ready (even when waiting for onload) and so misses elements So while possible it’s a pretty horrible experience to translate XML to HTML using JS - the declarative approach is more reliable and easier IMV The XSLT polyfill doesn’t seem to work when loa…

https://github.com/mfreed7/xslt_polyfill/pull/5 - it will be able to do this soon.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#558

Post by em-bee »

8NNTt8z3QvLT8tp wrote: post #557
youngtaff wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too spent a chunk of time seeing what worked and what it looks like… JS referenced by the XML can manipulate the XML but it frequently executes before the XML DOM is ready (even when waiting for onload) and so misses elements So while possible it’s a pretty horrible experience to translate XML to HTML using JS - the declarative approach is more reliable and easier IMV The XSLT polyfill doesn’t seem to work when loa…

https://github.com/mfreed7/xslt_polyfill/pull/5 - it will be able to do this soon.

nice. thanks for the link.

someone else mentioned xjslt here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44994310 which is an xslt 2.0 implementation. i have been trying to get that to work by loading the script directly into the xml data but so far could not figure out how to do it.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#559

Post by jact »

MallocVoidstar wrote: post #360
xvilka wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a better alternative to libxslt - xee[1][2]. It was discussed[3] on HN before. [1] https://blog.startifact.com/posts/xee/ [2] https://github.com/Paligo/xee [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43502291

> Xee implements modern versions of these specifications, rather than the versions released in 1999. My understanding is that browsers specifically use the 1999 version and changing this would break compat

XSLT versions are backwards compatible.
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