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The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

moq.dev

101–110 of 125 posts

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#101

There's a whole "why should I care?" section in this breathless post that doesn't explain how Media over QUIC benefits either media publishers or end users - the two most important (perhaps the only important) parties involved in this exchange. So, why should I care?

End-to-end (glass-to-glass) latency is substantially better. Mostly because the protocol isn't request/response any more.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#102
post #94
post #49

I tested the demo at https://moq.dev/publish/ and it's buttery as hell. Very impressive. Thanks for the great technology! Watching the Big Buck Bunny demo at https://moq.dev/watch/?name=bbb on my mobile phone leaves a lot of horizontal black lines. (Strangely, it is OK on my PC despite using the same Wi-Fi network.) Is it due to buffer size? Can I increase it client-side, or should it be done server-side? Also, thank…

The page mentions a lot of Rust code and WASM. Maybe your phone's CPU cannot run WASM fast enough? My Samsung S20 shows no black lines.

My Samsung S24 Ultra shows black lines too, on Chrome and Samsung Internet.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#103
I love this project and I've been reading kixelated blog from time to time. I also follow him on Github.

First of all, congrats for such nice work both kixelated and Cloudflare. I have a question regarding live-streaming. Usually live-streaming is seen but hundreds or thousands of people at the same time. Are there any idea to implement/possibility to use multicast with MoQ? The issue before was that TCP was used for HTTP/1.1 and HTTP/2, but now using UDP for HTTP/3 seems like a feasible idea. I would like to hear your thoughts on that. I know folks at Akamai and BBC were working on this.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#105
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Managing aspect ratios in conjunction with managing a responsive page layout is one of the darker parts of CSS in my experience. You’re not alone.

Not dark anymore: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/aspect-rati...

I wish it was true but there’s so many times aspect-ratio still doesn’t work. It’s a pretty weak property so things like flexbox parents will quickly cause it to be ignored.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#106

I love this project and I've been reading kixelated blog from time to time. I also follow him on Github. First of all, congrats for such nice work both kixelated and Cloudflare. I have a question regarding live-streaming. Usually live-streaming is seen but hundreds or thousands of people at the same time. Are there any idea to implement/possibility to use multicast with MoQ? The issue before was that TCP was used for…

Thanks!

You don't need multicast! CDNs effectively implement multicast, with caching, in L7 instead of relying on routers and ISPs to implement it in L3. That's actually what I did at Twitch for 5 years.

In theory, multicast could reduce the traffic from CDN edge to ISP, but only for the largest broadcasts of the year (ex. Superbowl). A lot of CDNs are getting around this by putting CDN edges within ISPs. The smaller events don't benefit because of the low probability of two viewers sharing the same path.

There's other issues with multicast, namely congestion control and encryption. Not unsolvable but the federated nature of multicast makes things more difficult to fix.

Multicast would benefit P2P the most. I just don't see it catching on given how huge CDNs have become. Even WebRTC, which would benefit from multicast the most and uses RTP (designed with multicast in mind) has shown no interest in supporting it. But I did hear a rumor that Google was using multicast for Meets within their network so maaaybe?

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#107
post #49

I tested the demo at https://moq.dev/publish/ and it's buttery as hell. Very impressive. Thanks for the great technology! Watching the Big Buck Bunny demo at https://moq.dev/watch/?name=bbb on my mobile phone leaves a lot of horizontal black lines. (Strangely, it is OK on my PC despite using the same Wi-Fi network.) Is it due to buffer size? Can I increase it client-side, or should it be done server-side? Also, thank…

Chrome on my oneplus ten, I get flickering black lines routinely. The fact they're going from somewhere along the top, down towards the right makes me wonder if it's a refresh artifact maybe? It's sort of like the rolling shutter effect

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#109

Semi-related and just FYI for Firefox users who visit Cloudflare-hosted, HTTP/3-using sites: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1979683

Hmm…do you have the in-browser DNS over HTTPS resolver enabled? I personally can't reproduce this, but I'm using DoH with 1.1.1.1. I've noticed that both Chrome and Firefox tend to have less consistent HTTP/3 usage when using system DNS instead of the DoH resolver because a lot of times the browser is unable to fetch HTTPS DNS records consistently (or at all) via the system resolver. Since HTTP/3 support on the serve…

Great details; thanks!

> Hmm…do you have the in-browser DNS over HTTPS resolver enabled? I personally can't reproduce this, but I'm using DoH with 1.1.1.1.

Yes, using DoH and Cloudflare (1.1.1.1). Have also tried it with 1.1.1.1 turned off; no differences.

As for the other suggestions, my results were the same with Firefox on both macOS and Fedora Linux:

- https://tls-ech.dev - EncryptedClientHello works on first try.

- https://http3.is - HTTP/3 works on second or third soft refresh.

- https://cloudflare-quic.com - (This is the one I reported initially) Stays at HTTP/2 despite numerous refreshes, soft or hard.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#110
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a mac book air m4 with a 600mbps connection, it's instantaneous and amazing.

with this pc spec and internet speed, I expect its "normal"

You'd be surprised i have 1g/1g and youtube still is not buttery smooth lol on my m3 mac pro, theirs always a noticeable gap between clicking play and it actually starting to stream
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