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U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

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Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#211

Ironic, Western politicians thought opening up to trade with China would lead to it adopting a Western model of government. Instead it's lead to the USA adopting the Chinese one.

We're living in the time of irony. Up is Down, Left is Right, Right is Left. Republicans have become Socialist. Free Speech absolutist now against Free Speech.

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Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's not a grant. That's just buying stocks.

It's effectively a grant. The US government isn't buying existing shares. Intel is issuing new shares and selling them to the US government - so actual money is being transferred to Intel (and existing shares are being diluted as a result).

That's just buying stocks (at-the-market offering).

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#213

Genuine question- How does Govt picking winners and losers going to help? Intel is no Too big to fail Bank. Why save Intel of all chip manufacturers? Wouldnt it be like 25 years too late, with Intel and its heydays !? Would Govt now ensure parity by investing in "marquee" entities across different industrial domains?

There is only 1 winner and 1 loser: Intel. It's the only chip manufacturer "left" in the US. The argument is national security: the US expects China to invade Taiwan and this will kill TSMC in the process. Whether this will happen or not can be debated, but this is what the government expects.

And now China knows the US expects this and it also knows the US does not expect to stop China, so China knows that it can expect the US to do very little. It's game theory turtles all the way down...

Edit: I think it's a misconception that China cares much about fabs in Taiwan. It wants unification.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#215

Genuine question- How does Govt picking winners and losers going to help? Intel is no Too big to fail Bank. Why save Intel of all chip manufacturers? Wouldnt it be like 25 years too late, with Intel and its heydays !? Would Govt now ensure parity by investing in "marquee" entities across different industrial domains?

You are asking why save Intel of all chip manufacturers, and the answer is because there aren't any other major chip manufacturers in the US. AMD no longer has a fab. TSMC dominates the global market and basically has no competition. In the event that Taiwan is invaded, the US would suddenly have a huge problem getting access to any kind of high end chips, be they CPUs or GPUs. This would be a major problem economica…

> TSMC does now have fabs Arizona, though I'm not sure what their capacity is.

180,000 wafers a year. Globally they do 17 million. They announced first profit yesterday.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#216

Genuine question- How does Govt picking winners and losers going to help? Intel is no Too big to fail Bank. Why save Intel of all chip manufacturers? Wouldnt it be like 25 years too late, with Intel and its heydays !? Would Govt now ensure parity by investing in "marquee" entities across different industrial domains?

There is only 1 winner and 1 loser: Intel. It's the only chip manufacturer "left" in the US. The argument is national security: the US expects China to invade Taiwan and this will kill TSMC in the process. Whether this will happen or not can be debated, but this is what the government expects.

If the argument was for protecting Intel, then the US government should be placing huge orders with Intel for solutions that will fund R&D and allow the company to regain its position as a foundry. They should be tapping into the defense budget. DARPA should be involved. This was an opportunity for petty extortion and a step towards socialism.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#217

Ironic, Western politicians thought opening up to trade with China would lead to it adopting a Western model of government. Instead it's lead to the USA adopting the Chinese one.

Western governments have taken a stake in, nationalised, or owned / operated corporations for a very long time!

Some examples: VOC, BBC, national airlines, etc.

List across countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government-owned_compa...

US specific: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_the...

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#218

Forgive me...how is this different than taxes? And wouldn't it be better to oh, I don't know, enforce the standard corporate tax rate?

Corruption is worse than taxes, because it's unfair. Now the government has an incentive to hurt AMD and free competition.

The distorts incentives and destroys the free market.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#219
post #33

This is worse than I expected. They're apparently putting in no new money and retroactively demanding stock in exchange for grants that were already awarded. If Intel can't afford to build 14A and we're putting in no net new money... then Intel still can't afford 14A? Unless they were lying.

It's just cronyism and bribes. Nothing more to it. From "he must go" to "Intel is so great that we demand a 10% stake” in a week. Mussolini-style.
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