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The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

moq.dev

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Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#51

Post by kixelated »

barosl wrote: post #49

I tested the demo at https://moq.dev/publish/ and it's buttery as hell. Very impressive. Thanks for the great technology! Watching the Big Buck Bunny demo at https://moq.dev/watch/?name=bbb on my mobile phone leaves a lot of horizontal black lines. (Strangely, it is OK on my PC despite using the same Wi-Fi network.) Is it due to buffer size? Can I increase it client-side, or should it be done server-side? Also, thank…

Horizontal black lines? Dunno what that could be about, we render to a element which is resized to match the source video and then resized again to match the window with CSS.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#52

Post by kixelated »

wiradikusuma wrote: post #24

Since it's "under the hood" as long as major browsers support it (I can't even find in caniuse?) it's good. And I guess if webview engines like Microsoft Edge WebView2 supports it then developers can use it immediately (wrapping it). But how about from the other side, I guess OBS and YouTube must start supporting it to actually be useful?

https://caniuse.com/webtransport https://caniuse.com/webcodecs

Technically, WebCodecs is not required since you can use MSE to render, but it's more work and higher latency.

Working on a WebSocket fallback and OPUS encoder in WASM to support Safari.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#53

Post by kixelated »

madsushi wrote: post #36
kixelated wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi I originally wrote WARP and used something similar at Twitch. It supports CMAF segments, so the media encoding is backwards compatible with HLS/DASH and can share a cache, which is a big deal for a gradual production rollout.

Thanks for the info! I was reading up on CMAF after seeing it mentioned on your blog.

Yeah, and CMAF is just a fancy word for fMP4. The f in fMP4 meaning an MP4 file that has been split into fragments, usually at keyframe boundaries, but fragments can be as small as 1 frame if you're willing to put up with the overhead.

The Big Buck Bunny example on the website is actually streamed using CMAF -> MoQ code I wrote.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#54

Post by nonane »

kixelated wrote: post #48
combyn8tor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the load balancing of the relays out of scope? It doesn't seem to be addressed in the write up unless I missed it.

EDIT: Sorry I just noticed this was directed to Cloudflare. They're using the same architecture as Cloudflare Realtime, their WebRTC offering. `relay.moq.dev` currently uses GeoDNS to route to the closest edge. I'd like to use anycast like Cloudflare (and QUIC's preferred_address), but cloud offerings for anycast + UDP are limited. The relays nodes currently form a mesh network and gossip origins between themselves.…

Home much success have you have with GeoDNS? We've seen it fail when users are using privacy respecting resolvers like 1.1.1.1. It gets the continent right but fails on city/state level.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#56

Post by stronglikedan »

barosl wrote: post #49

I tested the demo at https://moq.dev/publish/ and it's buttery as hell. Very impressive. Thanks for the great technology! Watching the Big Buck Bunny demo at https://moq.dev/watch/?name=bbb on my mobile phone leaves a lot of horizontal black lines. (Strangely, it is OK on my PC despite using the same Wi-Fi network.) Is it due to buffer size? Can I increase it client-side, or should it be done server-side? Also, thank…

I don't get the black lines on Android/Chrome but it doesn't respect my aspect ratio when I go full screen. Instead of adding black bars to the sides, it excludes the top and bottom of the video completely.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#57

Post by kixelated »

stronglikedan wrote: post #56
barosl wrote: post #49

I tested the demo at https://moq.dev/publish/ and it's buttery as hell. Very impressive. Thanks for the great technology! Watching the Big Buck Bunny demo at https://moq.dev/watch/?name=bbb on my mobile phone leaves a lot of horizontal black lines. (Strangely, it is OK on my PC despite using the same Wi-Fi network.) Is it due to buffer size? Can I increase it client-side, or should it be done server-side? Also, thank…

I don't get the black lines on Android/Chrome but it doesn't respect my aspect ratio when I go full screen. Instead of adding black bars to the sides, it excludes the top and bottom of the video completely.

I am bad at CSS.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#58

Post by englishm »

combyn8tor wrote: post #46
englishm wrote: post #3

Hi! Cloudflare MoQ dev here, happy to answer questions! Thanks for the award, kixelated. xD

Is the load balancing of the relays out of scope? It doesn't seem to be addressed in the write up unless I missed it.

I plan to cover more of the internal implementation details at a future date, possibly at a conference this fall..

But I can at least say that we use anycast to route to a network-proximal colo.

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#59

Post by otterley »

There's a whole "why should I care?" section in this breathless post that doesn't explain how Media over QUIC benefits either media publishers or end users - the two most important (perhaps the only important) parties involved in this exchange. So, why should I care?

Re: The first Media over QUIC CDN: Cloudflare

#60

Post by kixelated »

otterley wrote: post #59

There's a whole "why should I care?" section in this breathless post that doesn't explain how Media over QUIC benefits either media publishers or end users - the two most important (perhaps the only important) parties involved in this exchange. So, why should I care?

My fault, I trying too hard to avoid rehashing previous blog posts: https://moq.dev/blog/replacing-webrtc/

And you're right that MoQ primarily benefits developers, not end users. It makes it a lot easier to scale and implement features; indirect benefits.

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