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Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

cnbc.com

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Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#141

Post by dazc »

k__ wrote: post #18
hardwaregeek wrote: post #13

I’m curious if autonomous cars will become targets for aggressive drivers. Like a driver isn’t going to be as scared cutting off a Waymo or tailgating one because the AI isn’t gonna get road rage or honk like hell. In some places I could see the Waymo’s getting severely bullied if that’s the case.

If they don't get any feedback, they might not get anything from it anymore.

You are on to something here. I have started driving a small car in the UK (Ford Fiesta) and have discovered it's a magnet for the road rage people (around 50% of drivers here).

Firstly, I never back down and will come to a complete stop if slowing down doesn't work. Secondly, I have noticed these drivers feed off any reaction and that avoiding eye contact works very effectively, even if they pull beside you to have a childish rant.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#142

Post by limaoscarjuliet »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #79
setgree wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semi-related, but just once in my life, I want to hear a mayoral candidate say: “I endorse broken windows theory, but for drivers. You honk when there’s no emergency, block the box, roll through a stop sign — buddy that’s a ticket. Do it enough and we’ll impound your car.” Who knows, maybe we’ll start taking our cues from our polite new robot driver friends…

Blocking the box is a ticket in London. It works. Edit: let me clarify: there is a camera on every intersection which automatically gives a ticket to everyone who blocks for >5sec. That works.

I paid a ticket for this in NYC.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#143

Post by jeffbee »

convolvatron wrote: post #66
jeffbee wrote: post #21

The game-theoretic aspect of this is interesting to me. A lawful robot will never make progress in Manhattan because the people will just walk across its path continuously, forever. To be an effective driver in Manhattan you have to intimate that you're willing to hit people, without ever hitting them. If humans believe that the Waymo will categorically never hit them, then the Waymo will never get a turn.

its interesting. at beginning in SF the waymos would just stop cold anytime they saw a person or a bicyclist. now they're acting a lot more like a person. if I'm in the crosswalk they've started playing chicken just like a normal driver would, starting to go into the turn while watching to see if you're going to stop and give them the right of way. if you keep going, they will stop.

There are still plenty of humans in SF who are on to the nature of the game. A few of the shambling lunatics who inhabit the vicinity of 6th and Jessie know that they can just harass a Waymo and it will stand there forever.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#144

Post by orbisvicis »

chrisshroba wrote: post #44
setgree wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semi-related, but just once in my life, I want to hear a mayoral candidate say: “I endorse broken windows theory, but for drivers. You honk when there’s no emergency, block the box, roll through a stop sign — buddy that’s a ticket. Do it enough and we’ll impound your car.” Who knows, maybe we’ll start taking our cues from our polite new robot driver friends…

This always astounds me about cities who have a reputation for people breaking certain traffic laws. In St. Louis, people run red lights for 5+ seconds after it turns red, and no one seems to care to solve it, but if they'd just station police at some worst-offender lights for a couple months to write tickets, people would catch on pretty quickly that it's not worth the risk. I have similar thoughts on people using t…

Wait, so all the sibling comments are actually proposing bringing NYC traffic to a gridlock?

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#145

Post by fsaid »

skybrian wrote: post #104
fsaid wrote: post #75

Waymo should add a thin layer of "assertiveness" for actual deadlock that their self-driving architecture could cause. While in Austin, I was in a Waymo that blocked 3 lanes of incoming traffic while attempting to merge into a lane going into the opposite direction. It was a super unorthodox move, but none of the drivers (even while stopped for a red light) would let the Waymo* merge into their lane. Thank God for th…

According to this article, they are doing some of that already. Presumably it will improve: > Waymos are getting more assertive. Why the driverless taxis are learning to drive like humans https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/waymo-robotaxis-drivi...

Oh very cool. My only complaint is that it didn't lay on the horn for the last example of the reckless driver nearly causing an accident.

I wonder if this is related to the Foundation Model: https://waymo.com/blog/2024/10/ai-and-ml-at-waymo

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#146

Post by mothballed »

rahkiin wrote: post #67
chrisshroba wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always astounds me about cities who have a reputation for people breaking certain traffic laws. In St. Louis, people run red lights for 5+ seconds after it turns red, and no one seems to care to solve it, but if they'd just station police at some worst-offender lights for a couple months to write tickets, people would catch on pretty quickly that it's not worth the risk. I have similar thoughts on people using t…

In europe we use traffic cameras for this. Going through red light? A bill is in your mailbox automatically. No need for a whole police station.

In most the USA, or at least Arizona, you have to serve someone. Just dropping something in a mail box doesn't mean dick. The very people that invented the traffic cameras up in Scottsdale were caught dodging the process servers from triggers from their own camera.

Another words, you have to spend hundreds of dollars chasing someone down, by the time you add that on to how easy it is to jam up the ticket in court by demanding an actual human being accuse you, it's not the easy win some may think. You're basically looking at $500+ to try and prosecute someone for a $300 ticket.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#147

Post by rvnx »

0_____0 wrote: post #140
rahkiin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In europe we use traffic cameras for this. Going through red light? A bill is in your mailbox automatically. No need for a whole police station.

In Massachusetts, USA, red light cameras were illegal until very recently, due to a 70s era law specifying that a live policeman had to issue a citation for something like that. From well before traffic cameras were common.

Put a single live policeman in front of 100 camera screens

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#148

Post by polynomial »

setgree wrote: post #28
vinkelhake wrote: post #25

I live in the bay and occasionally ride Waymo in SF and I pretty much always have a good time. I visited NYC a few weeks ago and was instantly reminded of how much the traffic fucking sucks :) While I was there I actually thought of Waymo and how they'd have to turn up the "aggression" slider up to 11 to get anything done there. I mean, could you imagine the audacity of actually not driving into an intersection when…

Semi-related, but just once in my life, I want to hear a mayoral candidate say: “I endorse broken windows theory, but for drivers. You honk when there’s no emergency, block the box, roll through a stop sign — buddy that’s a ticket. Do it enough and we’ll impound your car.” Who knows, maybe we’ll start taking our cues from our polite new robot driver friends…

We don't go after moving violations anymore (in NYC) because the driver might have a bad reaction. True story.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#149

Post by rickyhatespeas »

testfrequency wrote: post #106
kingkawn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LA and SF are not close to close to the complexity of nyc traffic and pedestrian culture

TIL. LA doesn’t have complex traffic? What sort of traffic do we have in LA then? LA is walkable, it’s lazy (and mostly incorrect) to say LA isn’t walkable. LA County is massive, and depending on where you want to pick a comparison from, you may prove yourself either right or wrong.

Traffic on the sidewalk is a daily occurrence and often necessity in NYC. I'm not sure exactly how every area in LA is but often (as in pretty much constantly every day) in Manhattan or Brooklyn drivers don't obey the lines on the road, don't care to bump objects and cars to fit into a spot, literally threaten to hit other cars to get anywhere.

There's a bit of a "do what you have to" mentality with NY traffic that I haven't seen in any other east coast or mid-western city. I think that poses some unique challenges that I've often seen video of Waymos freezing up when facing similar scenarios, which could cause huge issues in most of the city.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#150

Post by xyst »

the-rc wrote: post #2

I saw one of these on Chambers Street just yesterday afternoon, but it must have been in manual mode, of course.

The Waymo’s I see in Austin just circle the same path to pump the number of miles their fleet is training on. Unless they are on an actual ride.

Is Chambers St busy during the afternoons?

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