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Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

cnbc.com

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Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#121

Post by joecool1029 »

potatolicious wrote: post #105
nothrabannosir wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking the box is a ticket in London. It works. Edit: let me clarify: there is a camera on every intersection which automatically gives a ticket to everyone who blocks for >5sec. That works.

It is in NYC also, except it's entirely unenforced. We need a lot more red light cameras. The nominal regulations on automotive behavior is pretty sufficient throughout the US, the main problem is that in most parts of the country traffic law may as well be a dead letter.

> It is in NYC also, except it's entirely unenforced.

It's enforced in the worst congested zones, the intersections around tunnel entrances and midtown, but as I said in my other comment usually by parking enforcement not NYPD.

A workaround in the law is to throw your turn signal on if stranded in the box, this doesn't count as blocking the box.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#122

Post by dboreham »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #53
potatolicious wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Why does having launched in other cities matter if the new city brings up things that none of the other launched cities do?" New requirements come up all the time in technology. The existence of a new requirement isn't in and of itself justification for skepticism - is there a particular reason to believe that Waymo is not capable of solving for the new requirement? The answer may be yes, but simply "ahah! It woul…

The interesting snow & ice problem for me is that humans will drive in winter conditions that are unsafe -- for example white-out blizzards. Robocars won't be able to drive in a white-out blizzard, so they'll likely refuse to do so. Humans should also refuse to drive, but people drive anyways. NYC doesn't generally get white-out blizzards, so refusing to drive in them is quite feasible.

If white-out visibility is the only problem to be addressed then machines seem pretty well placed because they can use very accurate positioning and non-visible light sensors. Unfortunately they probably wouldn't know that there's a 50 yard section of the road that always drifts in when the wind comes from the south and the snow is dry.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#123

Post by trhway »

fsaid wrote: post #75

Waymo should add a thin layer of "assertiveness" for actual deadlock that their self-driving architecture could cause. While in Austin, I was in a Waymo that blocked 3 lanes of incoming traffic while attempting to merge into a lane going into the opposite direction. It was a super unorthodox move, but none of the drivers (even while stopped for a red light) would let the Waymo* merge into their lane. Thank God for th…

>Waymo should add a thin layer of "assertiveness"

well, just couple weeks ago here on the intersection of Middlefield and Shoreline, half-mile from Google headquarters - 100 million times driven by Waymo cars, thousands by us - midday, perfect visibility, perfect intersection with all the markings, lights, etc., we and a Waymo are doing left turns from dedicated lanes on the opposite directions. We were saved from head on collision by the "lack of assertiveness" on the part of my wife as she swerved last moment as the Waymo apparently decided that its left turn point lies way into, very deep into, our trajectory, and it was assertive enough to not care that we were in its path. I almost soiled my pants upon seeing how it went for barreling into us instead of turning.

It looks like the same extra assertiveness like with Uber back then - i.e. to not have an emergency braking and similar features because it gets too much false positives.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#124

Post by astrange »

Zigurd wrote: post #74
QuantumSeed wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in a Waymo in SF last weekend riding from the Richmond district to SOMA, and the car actually surprised me by accelerating through two yellow lights. It was exactly what I would have done. So it seems the cars are able to dial up the assertiveness when appropriate.

An autonomous vehicle's hivemind knows the exact duration of all yellow lights, even ones that vary based on traffic flow.

Not if they change the timing.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#125

Post by xyst »

hardwaregeek wrote: post #13

I’m curious if autonomous cars will become targets for aggressive drivers. Like a driver isn’t going to be as scared cutting off a Waymo or tailgating one because the AI isn’t gonna get road rage or honk like hell. In some places I could see the Waymo’s getting severely bullied if that’s the case.

Who cares? You are focusing on unimportant issues.

Movement in the USA is heavily outdated. Whether it’s "automated" won’t change anything other than encourage more cars on the road. Great your 5AM commute from the boondocks still takes 2-3 hours but at least you don’t have to put your hands on the wheel!

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#126

Post by jakelazaroff »

[deleted] wrote: post #108
rahkiin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In europe we use traffic cameras for this. Going through red light? A bill is in your mailbox automatically. No need for a whole police station.

[deleted]

Nobody thinks it's racist to enforce traffic laws. People think it's racist to selectively enforce traffic laws by race, which usually takes the form of police pulling over Black drivers at higher rates. (But it can also mean installing more traffic cameras in minority neighborhoods!)

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#127

Post by jamiek88 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #53
potatolicious wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Why does having launched in other cities matter if the new city brings up things that none of the other launched cities do?" New requirements come up all the time in technology. The existence of a new requirement isn't in and of itself justification for skepticism - is there a particular reason to believe that Waymo is not capable of solving for the new requirement? The answer may be yes, but simply "ahah! It woul…

The interesting snow & ice problem for me is that humans will drive in winter conditions that are unsafe -- for example white-out blizzards. Robocars won't be able to drive in a white-out blizzard, so they'll likely refuse to do so. Humans should also refuse to drive, but people drive anyways. NYC doesn't generally get white-out blizzards, so refusing to drive in them is quite feasible.

Also snow and ice in NYC is a rare event now, not a given like it used to be.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#128

Post by sowbug »

QuantumSeed wrote: post #54
vinkelhake wrote: post #25

I live in the bay and occasionally ride Waymo in SF and I pretty much always have a good time. I visited NYC a few weeks ago and was instantly reminded of how much the traffic fucking sucks :) While I was there I actually thought of Waymo and how they'd have to turn up the "aggression" slider up to 11 to get anything done there. I mean, could you imagine the audacity of actually not driving into an intersection when…

I was in a Waymo in SF last weekend riding from the Richmond district to SOMA, and the car actually surprised me by accelerating through two yellow lights. It was exactly what I would have done. So it seems the cars are able to dial up the assertiveness when appropriate.

When red-light cameras are installed at an intersection, the number of rear-end accidents typically increases as drivers unexpectedly slow down instead of speeding up at yellow lights.

The cost of these accidents is borne by just about everyone, except the authority profitably operating the red lights. (To be fair, some statistics also show a decrease in right-angle collisions, which is kinda the point of the red-light rules to begin with.)

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#129

Post by lvl155 »

starlust2 wrote: post #119
lvl155 wrote: post #65

No chance Waymo can operate in many parts of NYC. Good luck getting through double parked cars in Astoria and elsewhere.

Maybe not immediately but gathering the data on those areas will eventually lead to their ability to drive there.

That type of tolerance in moving vehicles will take at least a decade.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#130

Post by jakogut »

chrisshroba wrote: post #44
setgree wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semi-related, but just once in my life, I want to hear a mayoral candidate say: “I endorse broken windows theory, but for drivers. You honk when there’s no emergency, block the box, roll through a stop sign — buddy that’s a ticket. Do it enough and we’ll impound your car.” Who knows, maybe we’ll start taking our cues from our polite new robot driver friends…

This always astounds me about cities who have a reputation for people breaking certain traffic laws. In St. Louis, people run red lights for 5+ seconds after it turns red, and no one seems to care to solve it, but if they'd just station police at some worst-offender lights for a couple months to write tickets, people would catch on pretty quickly that it's not worth the risk. I have similar thoughts on people using t…

People are risking their lives and the lives of others, and a fine is supposed to be the thing that finally gets them to comply?
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