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Go native, HTML5 is going to lag for a while

blog.suthakamal.com

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Re: Go native, HTML5 is going to lag for a while

#41

Post by recoiledsnake »

josteink wrote: post #32
ender7 wrote: post #13

Sadly, Apple and/or Google have the power to retard the adoption of HTML5 as long as they like. "But ender7," you say, "both Mobile Safari and Chrome have great support for HTML5." Yes, they do. Sort of. Except for the crippling bugs in many of their implementations. Some of these bugs render the APIs in question essentially useless on mobile. Or just a giant pain in the ass to work around. Or have performance issues…

On Android, you can install updated browsers like Firefox and Chrome. Not sure about how well their mobile counter-parts actually support HTML5, but at least you have a choice for a non-system-supplied browser. On iOS you are, as you say, SOL because Apple has literally crippled the options you have down to one: The one they supply and update, once a year.

>On iOS you are, as you say, SOL because Apple has literally crippled the options you have down to one: The one they supply and update, once a year

Especially egregious given Steve Jobs' memo about not supporting Flash on iOS.

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

Some choice quotes:

>Though the operating system for the iPhone, iPod and iPad is proprietary, we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open. Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. Apple’s mobile devices all ship with high performance, low power implementations of these open standards. HTML5, the new web standard that has been adopted by Apple, Google and many others, lets web developers create advanced graphics, typography, animations and transitions without relying on third party browser plug-ins (like Flash). HTML5 is completely open and controlled by a standards committee, of which Apple is a member

> If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript

>New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind

It's been two and a half years since that, and still HTML5 has major issues. Given Apple's engineering prowess, I doubt that HTML5 is a priority for them, or else they would've had a great implementation by now.

They know that all the apps in the App Store serve as excellent lock in against Android, Windows Phone and RIM. Why make it easier for people to switch instead of dragging their feet with a small update every year?

Re: Go native, HTML5 is going to lag for a while

#42

Post by olouv »

The author is wrong, you can build up a HTML5 app and use everything that a native app does (using PhoneGap/Cordova & custom native bridges), so that is not the point at all in the HTML5 vs. native debate.

To me the real issue is will Apple & Google keep holding their browser perf because hybrid mobile dev could hurt their profit & often breaks UI guidelines.

Re: Go native, HTML5 is going to lag for a while

#43

Post by bgarbiak »

akldfgj wrote: post #23
ender7 wrote: post #13

Sadly, Apple and/or Google have the power to retard the adoption of HTML5 as long as they like. "But ender7," you say, "both Mobile Safari and Chrome have great support for HTML5." Yes, they do. Sort of. Except for the crippling bugs in many of their implementations. Some of these bugs render the APIs in question essentially useless on mobile. Or just a giant pain in the ass to work around. Or have performance issues…

Which browser is the shining beacon of light for HTML5?

Personally, I have high hopes for IE10 and its supposedly tight integration with Windows Phone 8.

Re: Go native, HTML5 is going to lag for a while

#44

Post by SunboX »

tjogin wrote: post #11
ricardobeat wrote: post #3

A smartphone today can talk to all sorts of other devices: TV remotes over WiFi, watches and headphones over Bluetooth, health-sensors and car stereos through dock connectors, and TVs over AirPlay. All this is beyond the reach of HTML apps. That's almost the entire point of PhoneGap and similar frameworks, exposing these via APIs. He's confusing using HTML/CSS/JS for UI in a "native" app with making a web app.

Did you notice the enormous performance improvement in Facebook's app when they moved away from that type of solution to a native one?

That´s really wrong! Facebook still uses a lot of HTML5 in their new App! But they fixed a lot of bugs, mainly removed a lot of concurrent UIWebViews. For more information, take a look at:

http://www.vasantkumar.ca/2012/08/native-vs-html5-why-facebo...

But simply saying "They removed HTML5 and all works a lot better" is very wrong.

Re: Go native, HTML5 is going to lag for a while

#45

Post by bgarbiak »

tjogin wrote: post #11
ricardobeat wrote: post #3

A smartphone today can talk to all sorts of other devices: TV remotes over WiFi, watches and headphones over Bluetooth, health-sensors and car stereos through dock connectors, and TVs over AirPlay. All this is beyond the reach of HTML apps. That's almost the entire point of PhoneGap and similar frameworks, exposing these via APIs. He's confusing using HTML/CSS/JS for UI in a "native" app with making a web app.

Did you notice the enormous performance improvement in Facebook's app when they moved away from that type of solution to a native one?

Facebook did a lot of harm to the reputation of HTML5 with that app. Sometimes it took a few minutes to render comments for a photo or an user profile or a few items on a news feed. Of course, DOM/CSS/JS is slower than native - but it doesn't have to be THAT slow. Especially for what seems like a relatively simple things. I suspect they overengineered it a bit.

Re: Go native, HTML5 is going to lag for a while

#47

Post by SunboX »

bgarbiak wrote: post #45
tjogin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you notice the enormous performance improvement in Facebook's app when they moved away from that type of solution to a native one?

Facebook did a lot of harm to the reputation of HTML5 with that app. Sometimes it took a few minutes to render comments for a photo or an user profile or a few items on a news feed. Of course, DOM/CSS/JS is slower than native - but it doesn't have to be THAT slow. Especially for what seems like a relatively simple things. I suspect they overengineered it a bit.

Facebook used not only one WebView but many of these. Each WebView did fight against the others for CPU time. This was the main Problem and got fixed with the new App. Mainly by removing the Timeline-WebView.

Re: Go native, HTML5 is going to lag for a while

#48

Post by equark »

A lot of comments suggest that Apple and maybe even Google are deliberately keeping HTML5 performance subpar. I think this misses a key fact: Google has struggled for years to make native Android apps match iOS performance, even for simple things like scrolling a list. The fact is Apple set a standard with iOS that is incredibly hard to meet regardless of the technology.

The conclusion is sound though. Companies that build mobile apps using HTML5 in 2012 will almost certainly face the fate of companies that built web apps using Java applets in 1998.

Re: Go native, HTML5 is going to lag for a while

#49

Post by SunboX »

josteink wrote: post #32
ender7 wrote: post #13

Sadly, Apple and/or Google have the power to retard the adoption of HTML5 as long as they like. "But ender7," you say, "both Mobile Safari and Chrome have great support for HTML5." Yes, they do. Sort of. Except for the crippling bugs in many of their implementations. Some of these bugs render the APIs in question essentially useless on mobile. Or just a giant pain in the ass to work around. Or have performance issues…

On Android, you can install updated browsers like Firefox and Chrome. Not sure about how well their mobile counter-parts actually support HTML5, but at least you have a choice for a non-system-supplied browser. On iOS you are, as you say, SOL because Apple has literally crippled the options you have down to one: The one they supply and update, once a year.

> On Android, you can install updated browsers like Firefox and Chrome.

But these Updates won´t affect UIWebViews :( (hybrid apps)

Re: Go native, HTML5 is going to lag for a while

#50

Post by SunboX »

akldfgj wrote: post #23
ender7 wrote: post #13

Sadly, Apple and/or Google have the power to retard the adoption of HTML5 as long as they like. "But ender7," you say, "both Mobile Safari and Chrome have great support for HTML5." Yes, they do. Sort of. Except for the crippling bugs in many of their implementations. Some of these bugs render the APIs in question essentially useless on mobile. Or just a giant pain in the ass to work around. Or have performance issues…

Which browser is the shining beacon of light for HTML5?

It´s mobile safari. I can´t understand, why chrome on android performes this bad compared to mobile safari. :( On desktop it´s the opposite. :?
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